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[Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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[Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Postby Strobe » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:35 pm

Hello,

Long time reader, first time poster here. Love this site and all.

I just picked up Ret as my offspec, finally settled on this talent build and setup some of my gear. It's not the best gear in the world and I'm missing a few pieces, gems and enchants, but some things just don't feel right.

Firstly, DPS is very low. I can sustain about 2000-2200 on the heroic dummy with HoW, and about 2000 DPS with no HoW on the other dummy. I'm not too close to hit cap at the moment, mind.

My biggest worry is mana efficiency. According to these and many other forums, no one seems to be having a problem with mana. I believe Elsie quoted some sustainable DPS numbers that were far out of reach for me. I'm able to sustain DPS at ~2000 without HoW for ~220 seconds before going completely oom.

I'm also uncertain on glyphs. Couldn't find a definitive comparison anywhere(we're far too spoiled with theck for prot). I have read that the consecration glyph is excellent--as it seems to be--so I'm now using that. My other glyph slots are all empty at the moment, because the choice seems quite similar. I'd like to go for SoB glyph, but apparently I shouldn't have to, right?

I'd post my armory link but things are being a bit odd right now. Just want to mention that the best of my gear is ilvl 200 and the worst of it (particularly the trinkets) is pretty low. I chose some lower ilvl gear because of STR vs AP. I don't know Retri particularly well, I've always been prot at 80.

Oh, one more thing. Is divine plea always assumed up when not on CD?

Feedback very much welcome.

Thanks.

Edit: Armorylite link is in sig. Reason for the ungemmed helm, by the way, is that I'm waiting for a GM to talk to about the crafted one. I failed pretty hard and made another tempered helm. I even equipped it. Hopefully I can get that replaced. But anyway, that's that.

I use demise, by the way.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Postby Elsie » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:47 pm

Your mana will be fine so long as you're hit capped. Your DPS could be fine if you're rocking blues and naxx10 gear. Melee DPS is -highly- dependent on raid buffs such as +10% AP, -20% armor, +20% Swing Speed, +5% Crit, and +155 str/agi, Kings/Might - and others to a lesser degree. They are all very, very important. So test dummies do not really give you a good indicator. Use the Consecration glyph and Judgement glyph. The preferred third glyph is Exorcism, but Glyph of Seal of Blood is good if you do end up mana inefficient.

I use Divine Plea when my DPS abilities are on CD, but your mileage may vary. It'll become more important to me once my 4pc is broken, probably.

You should buy the valor emblem cloak or the BoE blue cloak with STR on it from the auction (Cloak of Bloodied Waters I think). Horn of Argent Fury is worse than quest trinkets such as Crusader's Locket, but you should get the one from Nexus as soon as possible - if not Darkmoon Card Greatness if you are serious. Priorities should be hit cap, then str, then expertise.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Postby Strobe » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:52 pm

I've never played a melee DPS class seriously, so I hadn't even considered that such a difference would be due to raid buffs. It does make sense. I'll pop in a judgement glyph and consider my mana after a little more gemming.

I've been using Divine Plea similarly and really couldn't do without it. After having been stuck at ~1500 DPS and not realising that my 2H maces skill was far from maxed for hours, I just need some reassurance today.

Anyhow, thanks for your reply, it was very helpful. Still open to input, of course :-).
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Re: [Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Postby Ziw » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:11 pm

Strange, run some daily HC with my main char - Rattlebeard (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bladefist&n=Rattlebeard yesterday and haven't noticed any mana problems at all. Did you use Judgement os the Wise? Every time i judged - i got more than 1000 mana back through JoTW. My mana was always above 50% even on bosses and with heavy consecration use.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Postby Strobe » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:51 pm

Ziw wrote:Strange, run some daily HC with my main char - Rattlebeard (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bladefist&n=Rattlebeard yesterday and haven't noticed any mana problems at all. Did you use Judgement os the Wise? Every time i judged - i got more than 1000 mana back through JoTW. My mana was always above 50% even on bosses and with heavy consecration use.
If you're asking if I judged wisdom, yes. I also have JotW.

The only testing I've done was on training dummies--I haven't instanced at all as ret yet. Out of curiosity, what was your DPS? Did you have to drink at all? Will be interesting when I can see your armory.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Postby Ziw » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:39 pm

DPS was 2400-2500 on overall data, i even overaggroed twice and had to bubble to avoid death. I drank only once before Maiden, just to have full mana before the fight. I used Divine Plea several times between trash pulls, to replenish some mana, because mobs went down so fast, that i could not Judge them in the end of the fight, to get mana back.

P.S. Is smth wrong with the armory link i gave you?
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Re: [Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Postby Strobe » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:22 am

Thanks for the information! The Armory isn't playing nicely at the moment, but I'm sure the link itself is fine.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Postby Eizen » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:53 am

Before patch on 5mans I used divine plea constantly just because stuff dies so fast.
After the patch I havne't seen any mana problems during raid. It's mostly full and I just use my racial ability most of the time but if my mana starts to drop then I use divine plea.
Last night we were trying razor ~ that proto drake boss and I didn't have any mana problems so to me the seal of blood glyph is not necessary
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Re: [Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Postby uke » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:55 pm

Ret does indeed get majorly boosted from party buffs.

Just self-buffed with BoMight, I could only get about 2k dps on a training dummy. later did some heroics with guildies in an all melee group of a DK, ret (me) and feral druid, with a pally healer providing kings. All their buffs combined gave me a steady 2800dps in our heroics on single target boss fights, even more on aoe trash.

800dps from party buffs alone in a 5 man, that's pretty significant.

Anyway, your dps is more than fine for pre-Ulduar raiding, get hit capped if you're not. Not sure what the dps requirement is for Ulduar, though.
Pally's been relegated to AH duties.

RAWR'ing it up as a bear now, with a side of boomkin.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Postby Strobe » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:29 pm

Appreciate the info! I'm still having doubts about my mana, but 2k -> 2.8k DPS from buffs sounds very nice. Any chance you have numbers from 10 and/or 25 man raids too?

This is and will remain very much my offspec, though; I don't plan to be seeing any of Ulduar as retri, and am enjoying it as a tank.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Postby uke » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:16 am

Strobe wrote:Appreciate the info! I'm still having doubts about my mana, but 2k -> 2.8k DPS from buffs sounds very nice. Any chance you have numbers from 10 and/or 25 man raids too?

This is and will remain very much my offspec, though; I don't plan to be seeing any of Ulduar as retri, and am enjoying it as a tank.


I actually did a 25 naxx run after my earlier post this weekend, and averaged in the 3500-ish range for DPS. I think I hit about 3800 on Patchwerk. My gear ain't all that great, either.
Pally's been relegated to AH duties.

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Re: [Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Postby Bozie » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:21 am

Is there a Ret DPS point system for gear out there somewere ? I want to do some calculating at work to see what my best possible upgrades will be. Also if someone knows stat weights for DPS ill takes those to and make my own formula.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Postby Dracora » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:23 am

uke wrote:
Strobe wrote:Appreciate the info! I'm still having doubts about my mana, but 2k -> 2.8k DPS from buffs sounds very nice. Any chance you have numbers from 10 and/or 25 man raids too?

This is and will remain very much my offspec, though; I don't plan to be seeing any of Ulduar as retri, and am enjoying it as a tank.


I actually did a 25 naxx run after my earlier post this weekend, and averaged in the 3500-ish range for DPS. I think I hit about 3800 on Patchwerk. My gear ain't all that great, either.


Guild: "Doing a pug 25 naxx, you wanna come Drac?"
Me: "Yeah sure, I'm gonna dps though."
Guild: "Oh no wai, we need a tank."
Me: "Uh, I suppose..."
(Joins raid and there's 4 tanks, 6 healers and 1 dps)
Me: "Yeah 4 tanks, thats pretty pro."

>.<
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Re: [Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Postby atropos457 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:19 am

Bozie wrote:Is there a Ret DPS point system for gear out there somewere ? I want to do some calculating at work to see what my best possible upgrades will be. Also if someone knows stat weights for DPS ill takes those to and make my own formula.


This may not be the answer you were looking for, but the Retribution module included with the latest version of Rawr is actually incredibly accurate - it's very, very close to Redcape's calculator in almost every respect, and has the oh-so-awesome Optimize feature. If all you are doing is looking for upgrades, give it a shot.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] DPS, Mana & Glyphs

Postby sherck » Fri May 29, 2009 7:00 am

Strobe wrote: After having been stuck at ~1500 DPS and not realising that my 2H maces skill was far from maxed for hours, I just need some reassurance today.


I am making a Ret off-set on the cheap to try out to see if I like it and yesterday realized that I was a 1 / 400 for 2H Maces (getting the Argent Skeleton Crusher as a weapon).

With my Holy gear (Intellect and Haste) and with a fast vendor purchased 2H Mace, I went from 1 / 400 to 398 / 400 in 14 minutes on beating on a healing tree just under Dalaran.

14 minutes.

Try equipping your Holy gear next time with a purchased white fast vendor weapon and see if you can skill up a bit faster than hours....

Cheers,
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