Remove Advertisements

[PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Baelor

Re: [PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Postby Dorvan » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:13 am

Lore wrote:The hit isn't terribly hard to come by through gear though


Yep, for the most part it's not going to come out as one of the better sources of hit, but it's worthwhile ticking it off in Rawr just in case.
Image

WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Scriggle - 85 Fire Mage
Fizzmore - 81 Mut Rogue
Adorania - 80 Disc Priest
User avatar
Dorvan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:28 pm

Re: [PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Postby majiben » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:40 pm

Lore wrote:Not particularly surprising. Both affect a relatively small subset of our overall damage, and ArP got buffed a lot.
Haste got boosted by a similar amount, no? Also with SoB being relatively more important I would have expected ArP not to catch up to haste.
Amirya wrote:some bizarre lovechild of Hawking, Einstein, and Theck
User avatar
majiben
Moderator
 
Posts: 6999
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Retired

Re: [PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Postby Dorvan » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:44 pm

Majiben wrote:
Lore wrote:Not particularly surprising. Both affect a relatively small subset of our overall damage, and ArP got buffed a lot.
Haste got boosted by a similar amount, no? Also with SoB being relatively more important I would have expected ArP not to catch up to haste.


Well, expectations can be deceiving :P CS getting RV is certainly one factor in helping ArPen, and CS being our #1 priority move now (thus lowering it's effective CD) also increases the value of ArPen. For details beyond that, you'd have to go toying with the innards of the models.
Image

WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Scriggle - 85 Fire Mage
Fizzmore - 81 Mut Rogue
Adorania - 80 Disc Priest
User avatar
Dorvan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:28 pm

Re: [PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Postby Lore » Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:01 pm

Yep. CS, DS, and white damage is all increased by ArP. ArP got a little more love than Haste did as well.
User avatar
Lore
Global Mod
 
Posts: 7757
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:52 am

Re: [PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Postby Frickit » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:10 pm

Lore wrote:The hit isn't terribly hard to come by through gear though


its not easy for me to get ret gear. i finally got a couple pieces with hit on them. if i were to avoid gemming any hit/expertise i could be at 7.5% hit and roughly zero expertise. should i do that or keep around 8 expertise skill/hit capped with gems? i would be using 8hit/8expertise gems.
using a polearm atm cuz of 70 something hit on it and high wep dps. and no sword or mace yet.
Image
Frickit
 
Posts: 1356
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:34 pm

Re: [PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Postby Lore » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:58 pm

Hit is worth gemming for in 3.1. Expertise is not. Use your orange cuts on +hit/+str.
User avatar
Lore
Global Mod
 
Posts: 7757
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:52 am

Re: [PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Postby majiben » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:02 pm

I suppose the RV changes explains where the additional ArP value is coming from.
Amirya wrote:some bizarre lovechild of Hawking, Einstein, and Theck
User avatar
majiben
Moderator
 
Posts: 6999
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Retired

Re: [PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Postby Dorvan » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:39 pm

Frickit wrote:its not easy for me to get ret gear. i finally got a couple pieces with hit on them. if i were to avoid gemming any hit/expertise i could be at 7.5% hit and roughly zero expertise. should i do that or keep around 8 expertise skill/hit capped with gems? i would be using 8hit/8expertise gems.
using a polearm atm cuz of 70 something hit on it and high wep dps. and no sword or mace yet.


It is still the case that you should never gem for expertise (it's possible that the tipping point where Exp > Str might be reached by the time you're in full Ulduar 25 hard mode gear though, I'm not sure). By the time you're entering Ulduar it'll be worth gemming for hit cap. I haven't run the numbers for lower buff/gear levels, but I suspect that hit passes Str relatively early on. Keep in mind that as Alliance your hit cap is only 7% instead of 8 if you usually have a draenei with you. Other tips from your armory:

-- You've got a Dragon's Eye in the wrong place (move shoulders to head). First choice is to use them in blue sockets with non-stam bonuses. JCs should never use 8 Str/12 Stam gems....if you can't put a dragon's eye in a blue socket just use a 16 Str or 16 hit gem.

-- You'd get the socket bonus on your chest if you just reversed the gems.

-- 44 AP beats 15 Expertise on your gloves.

-- In general, download Rawr and do what it tells you. It's improved a lot for 3.1, to the point where I'm satisfied that it matches Redcape's spreadsheet for accuracy and thus prefer Rawr for the more powerful UI (<3 the optimize feature).
Image

WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Scriggle - 85 Fire Mage
Fizzmore - 81 Mut Rogue
Adorania - 80 Disc Priest
User avatar
Dorvan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:28 pm

Re: [PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Postby Sober » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:42 am

Might have to ditch the Enchanted Tear since I might need to gem hit on my ret gear, might as well maybe gem in the occasional (or sole) 8str/12sta gem.
Sober
 
Posts: 393
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 10:54 am

Re: [PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Postby Dorvan » Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:50 am

Sober wrote:Might have to ditch the Enchanted Tear since I might need to gem hit on my ret gear, might as well maybe gem in the occasional (or sole) 8str/12sta gem.


6 agi/6 str is still better than 8 str, regardless of whether you've got yellow gems floating around elsewhere
Image

WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Scriggle - 85 Fire Mage
Fizzmore - 81 Mut Rogue
Adorania - 80 Disc Priest
User avatar
Dorvan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:28 pm

Re: [PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Postby majiben » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:25 am

But is 6str/6agil/6int(spellcrit) better than 8 hit/12stam?
Amirya wrote:some bizarre lovechild of Hawking, Einstein, and Theck
User avatar
majiben
Moderator
 
Posts: 6999
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Retired

Re: [PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Postby Dorvan » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:24 am

Majiben wrote:But is 6str/6agil/6int(spellcrit) better than 8 hit/12stam?


It looks like 8 hit/12 stam is slightly better than 6 Str/6 Agi at my gear level *if* you need the hit. It's close enough that my guess is by the time hit/stam passes 6 Str/6 Agi, you probably have enough hit gear to be capped without gems anyway.
Image

WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Scriggle - 85 Fire Mage
Fizzmore - 81 Mut Rogue
Adorania - 80 Disc Priest
User avatar
Dorvan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:28 pm

Re: [PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Postby Extracrispy » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:36 pm

It also depends on what socket bonuses you can pick up. Gemming for that second bonus when not using a tear should be better with 3.1 due to orange sockets being more appealing. For example, gemming greathelm with 8str/12stam and t7.5 legs with 8hit/8str would change 6str/6agi and 16 str into 8str/12stam, 8hit/8str, and the 6 crit bonus from the legs. The 8 hit is better than the 6str lost and the 6 crit is marginally better than the 6 agi.

It really comes down to what socket color is in the helm (since its usually the best bonus) and the opposite off-colors in the other pieces and their corresponding socket bonuses.
Image
Extracrispy
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:14 am

Re: [PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Postby katraya » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:53 am

Will the relative value of the 4pc T7 decrease as soon as 3.1 hits and Judgements make up less of our damage? I have read that it can be a 3% damage increase but I assume that is no longer the case with damage being increased on the seal and reduced for the judgement?

Rawr (2.2.0b6) is telling me to drop my 4pc set in favor of the Titansteel helm and Maexxna's chest (I do not have gloves - using Zeliek's), and swapping the badge boots - which I put back on for the hit - to the Melancholy Sabatons. I just want to make sure that the increased hit will be more valuable than the loss of the bonus (and some stats). Obviously the set will get broken up at some point in Ulduar but I just want to know if I'd be right to break it right away.
Image
User avatar
katraya
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 2111
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:45 am

Re: [PVE-Ret] Help with Value of Hit; now and post-patch

Postby Dorvan » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:29 pm

Yes, the shifting of damage from JoB to SoB does decrease the value of the 4 piece bonus. I'm not sure exact value of the bonus, but the version of Rawr you're using does model the changes correctly so I'd trust what it tells you.
Image

WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Scriggle - 85 Fire Mage
Fizzmore - 81 Mut Rogue
Adorania - 80 Disc Priest
User avatar
Dorvan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:28 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Off-specs & Other Classes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest