[Holy PVE] 3.1 Build: 54/17/0 vs 51/5/15 vs 51/0/20

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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[Holy PVE] 3.1 Build: 54/17/0 vs 51/5/15 vs 51/0/20

Postby Loquerion » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:22 pm

I've been playing around with holy specs in preparation of 3.1, and have came up with 3 builds that suit my fancy and can't make up my mind. Each has its own pros and cons. Can I get some feedback on what you guys think will be the best for healing 10 and 25 mans primarily? I'm sure I'll still be healing some 5 mans too, but I think all of these will work for 5 mans.

54/17/0
Pros: Sacred shield gets buffed pretty well with Divine Guardian. The less damage taken, the less I have to heal. This also pretty well ensures I'll be available to heal with the reduction in stuns, fears, disorients, and movement impairing effects. Also, with the glyph it shaves 9 minutes off of LoH making it available more often for SHTF situations, as well as reduces the cooldown on Hand of Protection. Could easily double as a PvP build.

Cons: Less overall crit % with no points in ret means less mana returned from Illumination.

51/5/15

This is really just a bastard child of option 1 and 3. Picking up +5% healing in prot at the cost of -5% crit in ret. You could drop the 2 points from PoJ and put them in Conviction to offset, but I like running fast.

51/0/20

Pros: More overall crit %. Running fast. Can judge more often, helping ensure JotP uptime and the 1 point in HotC is nice if nobody else is bringing that buff to the party. Imp Might to make the melee dps happy.

Cons: Heals hit for less without the +5% talent. More prone to stuns, fears, movement impairing effects. LoH and HoP not available as often.

What do you guys think? I really like option 1 because of the utility and the buff to sacred shield, I think it would be really mana efficient. But, I'd miss the run speed from PoJ and critting less means less mana.
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Re: [Holy PVE] 3.1 Build: 54/17/0 vs 51/5/15 vs 51/0/20

Postby GothicPL » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:33 pm

First of all, I would recommend amending your 51/0/20 spec to move points from Improved Judgements to Heart of Crusader. If you want to pick up a raid utility talent, pick up all points in it - just like you would fully talent into Improved Faerie Fire as a moonkin assigned to have it.

Second, I think the spec may depend on how many Tier 8 pieces are acquired and the overall gear level of you and your tanks. In the beginning of the instance I'm thinking of going 51/0/20 to allow for better mana longevity on supposedly harder Ulduar fights. Once keeping up the tanks gets a little easier and the Sacred Shield tier 8 bonus is active, using 54/17/0 sounds very appealing for smoothing raid _and_ tank damage via improved DS and SS respectively.
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Re: [Holy PVE] 3.1 Build: 54/17/0 vs 51/5/15 vs 51/0/20

Postby Elsie » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:10 pm

51/5/15
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAzgM0sVu0tgkxZVcbx
-Specs into +5% crit

51/17/3
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAzgM0sVu0tgkxGzmbZc
-divine guardian
-divine sacrifice
-Can be variated into 52/17/2
-What will probably be the "preferential" build due to SS's importance.

51/20/0
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAzgM0sVu0tgkxGzmbh
-only really good if your group lacks a prot paladin or tree druid

In general, there's no reason to go 51/0/20 when you can go 51/2/18 and still get all the crit with 2% healing done.
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Re: [Holy PVE] 3.1 Build: 54/17/0 vs 51/5/15 vs 51/0/20

Postby Loquerion » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:15 am

That's a good point, Gothicman. Since I'm normally our guild's ret pally, I might as well pick that up to be sure the buff is covered. I like the idea of going heavy ret to start and then switching to the SS heavy build after I get the 4 piece bonus, I think that's what I'll do. Our raid tanks are pretty well geared out from Naxx, no EoE stuff yet but we hope to down Maly this weekend so we'll see.
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Re: [Holy PVE] 3.1 Build: 54/17/0 vs 51/5/15 vs 51/0/20

Postby Sharlos » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:24 am

I'll probabbly be going 51/0/20 for pve.

Your second spec is a bad idea. 5% crit>>>>>5% healing.
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Re: [Holy PVE] 3.1 Build: 54/17/0 vs 51/5/15 vs 51/0/20

Postby Elsie » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:03 am

Sharlos wrote:I'll probabbly be going 51/0/20 for pve.

Your second spec is a bad idea. 5% crit>>>>>5% healing.

51/5/15 only has 3% less crit, but 5% (10% self) more healing done. 5% healing done > 3% crit imo. Probably 5% healing > 5% crit, too for that matter.

Either way, +2% healing > +0% healing.
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Re: [Holy PVE] 3.1 Build: 54/17/0 vs 51/5/15 vs 51/0/20

Postby GothicPL » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:02 am

Elsie wrote:
Sharlos wrote:I'll probabbly be going 51/0/20 for pve.

Your second spec is a bad idea. 5% crit>>>>>5% healing.

51/5/15 only has 3% less crit, but 5% (10% self) more healing done. 5% healing done > 3% crit imo. Probably 5% healing > 5% crit, too for that matter.

Either way, +2% healing > +0% healing.


With the current state of Holy Paladin (strong Illumination mana returns + strong HL that overheals a lot + weak FoL that underheals even if you go all out for +spell power), +crit% is significantly more valuable than +healing% done. In addition, going into ret allows picking up PoJ, which partially mitigates one of the unique weaknesses of the paladin class - healing on the move. The sooner you are out of the fire, the sooner you can resume healing.

I really think that with 3.1 there will be two distinct styles of holy healing dependending on whether one gears and specs for stronger SS, or for longer sustained HL spam.
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Re: [Holy PVE] 3.1 Build: 54/17/0 vs 51/5/15 vs 51/0/20

Postby Boxy » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:00 am

I agree with Gothic, 2% extra healing is next to nothing. %increase to healing is the last thing im looking for in potential talents currently. I'd much rather take regen or utility talents that help me heal faster.
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Re: [Holy PVE] 3.1 Build: 54/17/0 vs 51/5/15 vs 51/0/20

Postby Earantur » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:09 am

I'm personally going to stay with the same 51/0/20 spec I had in 3.08, possibly moving points in holy to pick up the new Aura Mastery.
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