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[PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

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[PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

Postby Flex » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:30 am

I'm on the PTR on my Ret paladin and auto-attacking the Heroic Training dummy testing my feeling about the "diminished crit chance" against PvE mobs as compared to the character sheet number.

My stats are 175 hit rating for 5.34% chance to hit + 1% for Draenei aura and 32.19% melee crit chance, which I'll assume is 31.59% boss crit for the .2% per level.

I looked up and noticed I was at 1600 auto-attacks and decided to do some quick and dirty math.

1600 total attacks
469 attacks were crits for a 29.3% crit
94 attacks were dodges
18 attacks were misses
so 112 total non-damaging attacks and 1488 damaging attacks.

If I were to multiply the total damaging attacks by the boss crit percent I end up with 470 of those attacks should be critical strikes, when I did have 469 critical strikes.

I'll do another calculation at 2500 attacks and upload screenshots of my stats. When done with that I will do a naked attack sequence with 0 hit rating and compare numbers.

If my feeling is right would this further increase the value of hit for melee DPS?
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Re: [PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

Postby guillex » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:35 am

Not entirely sure, but I think you're still sitting under the hit cap, which means that your numbers may be skewed a little.

Hit's been put out there as around 7-8%.
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Re: [PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

Postby Flex » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:41 am

Guillex wrote:Not entirely sure, but I think you're still sitting under the hit cap, which means that your numbers may be skewed a little.

Hit's been put out there as around 7-8%.


Right, but if the one-roll system is still active that shouldn't affect my critical strike chance, just increase my hit percentage.
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Re: [PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

Postby majiben » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:52 am

The boss crit suppression is closer to +3%
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Re: [PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

Postby Flex » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:02 pm

Majiben wrote:The boss crit suppression is closer to +3%


That's the thing that doesn't make sense to me, especially when I read that it was X% for rogues, Y% for warriors and 4.5% for Paladins?

Why would they do that?

So my hunch is that auto-attack may now be a two roll system so I'm doing some quick tests.
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Re: [PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

Postby Flex » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:47 pm

ScreenShot_040409_152946.jpeg
ScreenShot_040409_152946.jpeg (158.16 KiB) Viewed 705 times


Unfortunately I can't vouch for any possible debuffs placed on the training dummy as I was afk for significant portions of the test.

Crit: 32.19% crit / 31.59% crit if .2% per level / 29.19% if 3% suppression / 27.69% if 4.5% suppression
Hit: 5.34% hit + 1% racial

3000 attacks / 2771 damaging / 229 non-damaging
837 crit 27.9%
189 dodge 6.3%
40 miss 1.3%

one-roll assumption
3000 * 32.19% = 965 crits
3000 * 31.59% = 947 crits
3000 * 29.19% = 875 crits
3000 * 27.69% = 830 crits

two-roll assumption
2771 * 32.19% = 891 crits
2771 * 31.59% = 875 crits
2771 * 29.19% = 808 crits
2771 * 27.69% = 767 crits
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Re: [PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

Postby majiben » Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:04 pm

Flex wrote:
Majiben wrote:The boss crit suppression is closer to +3%
That's the thing that doesn't make sense to me, especially when I read that it was X% for rogues, Y% for warriors and 4.5% for Paladins?

Why would they do that?

So my hunch is that auto-attack may now be a two roll system so I'm doing some quick tests.

Well it wouldn't be too bad to get hit capped and and to the expertise soft in a mix of tank and ret gear. You could even use the SoV glyph. In fact I think I could get very close if not there. I can test later in the week.
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Re: [PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

Postby Flex » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:18 am

Majiben wrote:Well it wouldn't be too bad to get hit capped and and to the expertise soft in a mix of tank and ret gear. You could even use the SoV glyph. In fact I think I could get very close if not there. I can test later in the week.


I'm doing this now, minus the SoV glyph. 266 hit rating and 26 expertise and 16.93% crit chance. I'm seeing a 10% crit rate on the training dummy (1000+ swings).

ScreenShot_040509_031940.jpeg
ScreenShot_040509_031940.jpeg (138.77 KiB) Viewed 663 times


It seems highly probable the melee crit from Combat Expertise is broken on live like it is on the PTR.
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Re: [PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

Postby Flex » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:40 pm

I specced a 0/0/0 did 5439 attacks while hit and expertise capped anded up with a 5.75% crit rate while my charcater sheet was 10.93%.

So my testing seems to show my hunch as not holding true and that there does seem to be a random ~4.8% white attack crit reduction against boss level mobs.
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Re: [PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

Postby Dracora » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:57 am

Flex wrote:I specced a 0/0/0 did 5439 attacks while hit and expertise capped anded up with a 5.75% crit rate while my charcater sheet was 10.93%.

So my testing seems to show my hunch as not holding true and that there does seem to be a random ~4.8% white attack crit reduction against boss level mobs.


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Re: [PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

Postby Levantine » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:43 pm

Flexret and Flexmetallo by the looks. :P
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Re: [PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

Postby Flex » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:38 pm

Levantine wrote:Flexret and Flexmetallo by the looks. :P


Flexret was the PTR name.

On live it is Flexie and Flexmetallo.

I'm debating a third...
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Re: [PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

Postby Selinaria » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:43 pm

Flex wrote:I specced a 0/0/0 did 5439 attacks while hit and expertise capped anded up with a 5.75% crit rate while my charcater sheet was 10.93%.

So my testing seems to show my hunch as not holding true and that there does seem to be a random ~4.8% white attack crit reduction against boss level mobs.


^Truth.
http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t38095-retesting_hit_table_assumptions/#post1003184

Vulajin wrote:Incoming wall of text, as I have extensively tested the crit depression mechanic today and believe I've narrowed it down. The crit depression seems to be a 4.80% reduction against boss-level targets. The remainder of this post will detail my testing method.


First line of his post quoted, he performed extensive testing on this subject and crit suppression is somewhere between 4.8% and 4.825%. Pretty similar to what you did.
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Re: [PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:50 pm

What the hell is the point of that reduction?
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Re: [PvE-Melee] Auto-attack on two-roll system?

Postby Levantine » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:27 pm

Bitches be holdin down the melee deepz, imo.
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