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[PvP Prot] 3.1

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Baelor

Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Sarutankah » Thu May 07, 2009 3:10 pm

combatwombat wrote:Hehe well some retri/pvp gear for crit and hit is a must have, else you just get misses over your screen or non crits because of resilence



I just use all PVP gear, 700 resil + ardent defender = some epic battles with melee.


I'm a make a vid of my clicking skills :lol:

Also found that although seal damage can help with burst you can roll with Seal of light or seal of vengeance without too much loss as your true burst is from Shield, hammer and Avenger's.
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Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby ulushnar » Fri May 08, 2009 12:23 am

My Ret PVP gear kinda sucks right now, so I've actually found the best thing to do in 2v2 is just wear my Block tanking gear. At the scrubby end of the pool they spend so much time focussing on me that my Ret buddy can normally nuke them down before they realise he's the threat. I've definately had more success in Prot/MT gear than I have in Ret/PVP gear.
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Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby combatwombat » Sat May 09, 2009 11:36 am

Got a 2nd movie up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jswG97JxxnU

Will also see if i can get a arena one up but it may be hard with 30sec maxlength on clips=/
Still hoovering around 2,1k at least but with weapons at 2350 now it will be hard to reach them, guess il get some furius crit pieces or something.
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Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby cordelia » Mon May 18, 2009 10:05 am

another 2100 rated prot? i'm starting to get jealous. need 2 find good partner. lol.

comp? spec? gear? WTB: moar prot dps pvp talk.
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Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Kwarr » Fri May 22, 2009 9:24 am

Been lurking on these forums for a long time, my first time posting though.

I've been pvp'ing as ret all season, but for the last three days i decided to switch it up and try out prot after seeing this post and similar ones on other websites. When we started Tuesday my 2's was 2060 with an unholy dk and my 3's was 1950 with an unholy dk and a resto druid. Now my 2's and 3's are both at 2200. My survivability as prot seems to have almost doubled, and my burst potential on a single target seems to have also gone up.

Armory profile - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ysera&n=Kwarr
When we first started i tried using all BV gear, but I had no burst because i could never crit. I decided to use my 4 pc tier 8.5 set along with the furious ret pieces that have strength/crit on them. I am currently still using the furious cloak only because i have no actual ret cloak i can use that has strength/crit. My ShotR and AS crits are both normally around 7k on moderately resil'ed targets. I would like to re-gem my tier gear more for pvp, but sadly i need it to actually tank things :( .

My only real problem is that i still cant decide which seal i want to use.
Seal of blood offers more direct burst because its procs can crit, but it has the recoil, however small it may be, which sometimes does actually make a difference.
Seal of corruption ticks for about the same amount of dmg that blood normally procs for (probably thanks to my 2 pc bonus), and the judgment dmg for both are about the same. In addition, corruption continues to dmg your opponent if they get any separation from you as well as forces rogues to blow their cloak if they try to reset on you.

Quick note that i didn't actually realize until about halfway through my games, all of our attacks as prot go through hand of protection :) .

Any advice or questions from you guys are more than welcome.
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Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby cordelia » Sat May 23, 2009 4:34 pm

SoV: tick every 3 seconds, no crit

SoB/tM: tick every 1.5 seconds, can crit. can 2x up with reckoning.

No comparison IMO.

The dot aspect is fabulous for rogues, but that's really the only advantage of SoV vs. SotM, IMO. JoV hits for more than JotM, IMO.

I would be really leary of using prot pieces that don't have BV. I see very little advantage to them over equivalent ret pvp or pve pieces. 4pcT8.5 is nice, but I'm very unconvinced it's worth all 4 pieces. T7.5 2pc otoh, is awesome and you can get 2 BV pieces to go with it. 4pc Ret pve/pvp is also great when paired with LoO.

As a former ret pally, do you think prot is viable in the top arena brackets? Now that you've tried both, partner suggestions? You should check out the other thread in General forums: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23342
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Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Brute » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:00 am

Is prot as DPS/CC/off-heal viable w/ a DK partner in 2's? I haven't tried it yet.

Right now I'm holy/PROT and playing as a full-time healer/CC, and don't really try to do much damage and I gear accordingly (I.e., wear holy gear and spam FoL most of the fight). We don't quite have our rythm down on the stuns/silences but we're getting better. The FoL crits you can string together are amazing, but I'm having trouble keeping either of us up through good double dps teams like Mage/Lock or something so despite constant 6k+ FoL crits I still feel my healing is lacking some. We usually win against double DPS but its a short fight either way. Healer/DPS it comes down to timing our silences/stuns to kill their healer as my healing endurance and survivability are both quite good and I can usually shrug off their DPS indefinately or heal the DK through anything assuming I don't get CC'd myself. It seems mastering your CD's are key to survival in some cases... I usually heal for less than the other healer but it doesn't add up how much damage I prevented through SS, DSac, HoSac, etc. The survivability in this spec is amazing.


I'm wearing some tank gear, some PVP holy gear trying to stack stam as much as possible (for SP and survivability) while farming more PVP holy gear. My PVE tank gear is all epic while my PVE holy gear still had quite a few blues and of course was light on the stam, so I chose some tank peices for more stam/armor.

I was HOLY/prot till yesterday and it seems to heal vastly superior to the holy/PROT but my gear right now gets me cut through like a hot knife through butter. Frost DK's had no trouble nuking me once they built up full runic... but that may just be me needing more XP at arena, better gear, and learning to pop a CD before they start spamming Frost Strike.

I may just suck at PVP but any tips would be great.
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Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby cordelia » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:47 pm

I need to touch base with the rest of you out there who are Prot DPS PvP.

How is the HoF nerf affecting you?

I am coming to the conclusion that the nerf has made Prot DPS PvP utterly inviable for high level arenas. Having 10 seconds of Freedom every 25 seconds is far worse than having 14 seconds of Freedom every 25 seconds. 14 seconds allowed me to chain together strong DPS, then follow-up with HoJ and AS for a cc-burst kill, assuming their trinkets and cd's have been blown. 14 seconds allows me to put considerable pressure on the healer, preventing them from doing other things such as dropping totems, mana burning, cycloning. 10 seconds doesn't.

I started 2's with a disc priest the week before the recent patch. We shot up to 1800 matchmaking in one night, ending up over 1700 rating. This week, we have fallen back to 1600, and have struggled to reach 1650.

10 seconds of Freedom is a 28% decrease in time that I can close without worry of being kited. For targets that survive on kiting such as shamans, DK's, hunters, mages, etc. that translate literally into a 28% decrease in damage. It probably affects rets less than prot since 2h'ers have greater range than 1h'ers, and HoF also acts as a stun removal for them.

Furthermore, 15 seconds between freedoms practically guarantees that a good kiter can insure that Divine Plea falls off.

This is absurd, prot dps was just barely viable as it was. I am now of the opinion that it is completely dead.
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Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Levantine » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:48 pm

cordelia wrote:It probably affects rets less than prot since 2h'ers have greater range than 1h'ers


Wat
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Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby cordelia » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:54 pm

Misinformed. Luckily I tested it out before posting to the official forums.

I always thought 2h'ers had greater range than 1h'ers. I was wrong. Anyways, it does affect rets less because DS, Consecration, 7-second Judgements (+ Judgement damage increasing talents) are all melee+ range. Only Crusaders Strike + White damage, and attached seal damage are melee range. Prot has White + Seal + HotR + ShoR, which make up a much larger bulk of our damage, especially in pvp where we rarely drop consecrate due to mana issues.
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Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Kwarr » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:16 am

Sorry i haven't replied in a few weeks, been busy and just kinda forgot about it.

Honestly, i haven't seen much of a difference at all with the HoF nerf. Anytime that its actually been a problem is when it was dispelled/spellstolen right after I cast it anyway.

I dropped my DK 2's partner two weeks ago because we weren't playing well together and he wasn't all that good. I switched to the resto druid that i play 3's with and i gotta say, its an extremely good comp. We're at 2k right now with a matchmaking of around 2400, and we go about 50/50 with all of the 2400+ teams. The problem is our matchmaking as been that high since we were around 1500 so its just taking forever to move up because we have 15+ minute games playing the best teams all of the time.

As far as counters go, good ret/disc and feral/disc teams are both extremely hard to beat for us, but most other comps we can either destroy or play on equal footing with it played correctly. The real problem is just that i haven't been playing with my druid long enough for us to play together at the level needed to fight some of the top rated teams. Once we get our teamwork down better i can see us having a much more consistent win record against the higher teams on the battlegroup.

Really though, unless they nerf prot in some way or really buff ret, i cant see myself ever going back to ret for 2's or 3's. The survivability is so much better and the single target burst potential is equal if not better. I tried prot out in 5's too, but i just didnt like it much.
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Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby MotiVater » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:17 am

I much prefer prot in pvp to ret, probably just because I know where all the buttons are! I'm starting Arena with a resto druid and wanted some advice from the guys with good ratings out there.

I made sure to log out in what I wear for pvp. I dont have a rank to buy the newest gear but what would you suggest I do get a hold of? None of the pvp gear really looks to be much of an upgrade. I'm hardly ever focussed so living longer isnt really a problem, it's more about being able to kill faster, especially the healers.

What would you suggest I swap out? Armory http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ravenholdt&n=Moteva
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Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby combatwombat » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:33 am

Well i don´t have much exprience with prot/healer though i can imagine it being quite fun, without 2nd dps, ms or manaburn i suspect your druid would need to be more offensive with cyclones etc then druid rogue/war or such.

About gear alot of the pvp gear isn´t much of upgrades at all, having 2 sets(BV and crit) is probably the best way to go and then using the items with best stats for each slot, some really nice BV gear and hit/crit stuff with high stamina drops from ulduar, as prot it may be hard to get your hand on crit stuff before your melee dps but the BV pieces can be nice upgrades. Chest from auriya, waist from razor, feet from trash, t8 shoulders/hands, badge legs, neck and so on. Trash cloak from naxx with bv ain´t bad either.
Maybe consider wall of terror too since it got higher str/stam when you don´t seem to be focussing on BV as first choice anyway.

To maximise damage output you can also consider if it´s worth dropping the defensive encahnts if you only use the items for pvp. Head enchant and especially a 10+stats on chest can be a very nice addition.
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Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Eaglestrike » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:40 am

MotiVater wrote:I much prefer prot in pvp to ret, probably just because I know where all the buttons are! I'm starting Arena with a resto druid and wanted some advice from the guys with good ratings out there.

I made sure to log out in what I wear for pvp. I dont have a rank to buy the newest gear but what would you suggest I do get a hold of? None of the pvp gear really looks to be much of an upgrade. I'm hardly ever focussed so living longer isnt really a problem, it's more about being able to kill faster, especially the healers.

What would you suggest I swap out? Armory http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ravenholdt&n=Moteva


I suggest swapping out your partner. Prot + healer was killed by the vindication nerf. It's double dps or lose.
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Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Kinkstah » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:03 am

Hi guys, this is actually a topic I've been interested in for a while. Not really sure how I've missed this thread. :oops:

Some questions for those of you that have have been pvping as prot for a while.

1) Assuming that a blocked attack can't be a crit in pvp like in pve, how important would you say it is to be block capped?

2) Do you replace any piece of gear that doesn't have bv or do you also try to keep dodge/parry pieces to stay block capped?

3) Since in pvp we're (generally) only fighting other level 80s, would the combined avoidance needed to be block capped be lower than the 102.4 for raid bosses?

4) What would you say is the best way to get the 5? % hit needed for specials without sacrificing too heavily other important stats?

Thanks in advance! I'm hoping this will be a fun new way to spend the time I'm not raiding instead of grinding Timbermaw rep. :mrgreen:
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