Remove Advertisements

[PvP Prot] 3.1

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Baelor

[PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Ahms » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:52 am

my friend and myself have been trying some prot pvp with the new talents on the PTR and we're having a lot of fun with it (this is mainly BG's, haven't done much arena yet). i'd like to start gearing myself a bit more for it- right now i wear my 10/25/maly tank set which gives me about 29k hp, basic tank stats etc. however in the pvp environment i'm wondering if i should just get a ret set and wear that as well, if that will help me last longer with the resielence?

it's all the magic damage that gets me, but i'm not sure if that's work sacrificing tank stats against all the melee out there

btw stunlocking stuff + exorcism gibbing as prot is FUN :D
Paid by the Alliance
To slay all the giants


-Ahms of Mannoroth

Art - http://ahms.deviantart.com/
User avatar
Ahms
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:58 pm

Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby pfunkmort » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:58 pm

There was something on the mmo forums about a guy in full epic pvp holy, specced 19/52/0, who said he could be sort of soft healer/CC with about 9k crit flashes and like 1.9k sp (without DP up, which he said he used some of the time)... I found that pretty interesting. You'd still have the damage potential of a prot spec, with all of the damage control and the CC, but, in addition, you'd have a semi-viable healing role (no HS). That's the most promising thing I've heard for arena, if you had the right partner who was also high survivability, but, I normally mess around a LOT in pvp in my prot stuff, and I thought the new 3.1 changes would indeed help a lot. So, anyone else with thoughts? I'm actually curious about this as well.
Image
[2.Trade][Alessan]: Is WoW becoming an online kart racer in 4.0.3?
[2.Trade][Tehron]: Yes
User avatar
pfunkmort
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:11 am

Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby PsiVen » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:43 pm

Prot/Holy doesn't work all that well. You get a lot more synergy out of your gear if you're using tank stuff to do damage rather than healing stuff. May as well go for the more versatile Shockadin Holy/Ret route with that gear.

Keep it mixed, Ret PvP gear with Prot PvE gear. Avoid less useful stats like avoidance and block rating, as casters are the real threat.

I would advise selecting your gear by pretending it only has these stats:
Strength or AP (at 1/3 the value)
Stamina
Resilience
Block Value
Hit
Crit

You'll probably end up wearing your best Prot SBV pieces with some wasted stats, along with strong str/stam/resil Ret pieces. The key is to defuse any attempts to burst you down while you try to keep their healer busy. You can probably outlast some healers, but not all.
Gladiator Psiven, Retired Tankadin
WoW-sober since March 2014
Longtime addict of Space - Glory Through Conquest
User avatar
PsiVen
Moderator
 
Posts: 4364
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:28 pm
Location: On a Boat

Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby skolor » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:04 pm

I was thinking about playing around with this. I'm not too familiar with PVP though, and figured I'd ask about it before looking too bad. The build I came up with is: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZVGt0Md ... orM:rMjcmz . I'd mostly be doing 3's with a resto shaman and another DPS (Probably a warrior). My gear is going to be Naxx-10 stuff, the rogue has some PVP gear, and the shaman has mostly S5 gear.

Any suggestions?
My blog of my experiences leveling a tankadin.
skolor
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:56 am

Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Khayne » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:04 am

skolor wrote:I was thinking about playing around with this. I'm not too familiar with PVP though, and figured I'd ask about it before looking too bad. The build I came up with is: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZVGt0Md ... orM:rMjcmz . I'd mostly be doing 3's with a resto shaman and another DPS (Probably a warrior). My gear is going to be Naxx-10 stuff, the rogue has some PVP gear, and the shaman has mostly S5 gear.

Any suggestions?


Get hammer of the righteous.

No matter what you drop for it, get it.

HotR is easily 15% of your total damage output even on single targets, and when over half of classes got pets, it's also great at killing those off.
Not to mention when you go attack that healer, all melees will be on you anyway=>Free hits on multiple people.

I've had some situations after patch where me and someone else attacks healer but he manages to keep himself up, but since we've gotten the dps that tries to peel us to 50%=>stun healer, gib dps first afterall. If healer trinkets stun, jump back few yards and AS which hits both and silences healer.

Otherwise looks pretty solid.

Only other wierd part in post is: "I'd mostly be doing 3's with a resto shaman and another DPS (Probably a warrior)"
while you list how your team mates will be rogue with some pvp gear, and shaman with S5 :)
Image
Khayne
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:48 pm
Location: Finland

Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby skolor » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:45 am

Yeah, slip of the tongue. Its a rogue.

Is Touched by the Light any good? I'm thinking about moving things around like this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZVGt0Rd ... orc:rMjcmz .
My blog of my experiences leveling a tankadin.
skolor
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:56 am

Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Khayne » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:32 pm

Well TbtL is a great threat talent, but not sure how great portion was the dps increase especially as often in pvp i can't use concecrate due to people moving anyway so it'd just waste mana. Need to check that better from Theck's thread.

Also on your new build i might rather take imp. RF than anticipation.

More mitigation, that also works on spells and blocked hits>abit dodge imo.
Was RF still dispellable these days?
I'd still take it over anticipation if it is since most of the classes that anticipation helps with, don't dispel me anyway...just can't remember right now.

If set-up has a healer or you do bg's an option would be to move 1 point from reckoning to SA. abit more mana never hurts. But it's personal thing.

I think i might try that E4E instead of TbtL though, could be cool.
Image
Khayne
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:48 pm
Location: Finland

Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby cordelia » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:38 am

Been playing around with Prot PvP. I'm using full ret PvP gear with LL and Skull of Ruin +BV. It's not bad at all. Let's talk Spec: I'm currently leaning towards: 0/53/18: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZVGzuru ... hro:rMjcmz
It picks up E4E and 2 pts in TbtL for 4% crit. I'd love to get that 4% crit in, but I think TbtL and E4E will do more damage. Any maths on the subject?

Glyphing: AS, HoJ, and ... ?? HotR? ShoR? Turn Evil? I'm leaning towards Turn Evil atm, although I bet HotR is fun for BG's.

Moveable Talent Points:
1/5 Toughness <--> Divinity
3/3 iDA <--> Toughness <--> Divinity
2/5 Reckoning <--> Toughness <--> Divinity
1 pt in Ardent Defender <--> SpiritA OR 1 pt in Spirit.A. <--> Reck <--> Toughness <--> Divinity
and
2 pts in TbtL <--> Sanctitiy of Battle/Conviction/Vindictation
2 pts in EfE <--> Sanctity of Battle/Conviction/Vindication
User avatar
cordelia
 
Posts: 630
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:33 am

Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Elsie » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:55 pm

Prot/Holy doesn't work all that well. You get a lot more synergy out of your gear if you're using tank stuff to do damage rather than healing stuff. May as well go for the more versatile Shockadin Holy/Ret route with that gear.

It works well if you're a healer with prot talents. You lose holy shock, but gain a lot of survivability and divine plea mana regen. Your crit flash of lights are also huge.

The 3s silence on Avenger's Shield and 20s CD on stun are basically what makes it really viable.
User avatar
Elsie
 
Posts: 3819
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:12 pm

Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Khayne » Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:34 pm

cordelia wrote:Been playing around with Prot PvP. I'm using full ret PvP gear with LL and Skull of Ruin +BV. It's not bad at all. Let's talk Spec: I'm currently leaning towards: 0/53/18: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZVGzuru ... hro:rMjcmz
It picks up E4E and 2 pts in TbtL for 4% crit. I'd love to get that 4% crit in, but I think TbtL and E4E will do more damage. Any maths on the subject?

Glyphing: AS, HoJ, and ... ?? HotR? ShoR? Turn Evil? I'm leaning towards Turn Evil atm, although I bet HotR is fun for BG's.


Your spec is allmost identical to what i use atm for pvp, except i grabbed vindication at cost of 2 points in conviction. that vindication proc takes 2k+ health easily from enemy, not to mention lowers their their offensive skill, mana regen and in half of classes, drops their dodge chance quite some. Still working abit on my gear, haven't been able to replace all my tanking gear with ret pvp gear yet, but i don't feel 2 pieces of T7 be that bad, it still has high stam&strenght, and there's some pretty sweet BV on it too. Really starting to feel the gains in resilience though now allready, can't wait to get abit more.

Glyphs i'm not totally sure on...HoJ and salvation is what i want right now, atm just trolling around with judgement, hoj and something that i don't even remember in 3rd slot. I prefer keep my AS atm as the 3 target version, i love it when i can stop a small row of casters at once or silence the healer and also hurt dps target if i manage to pull them near each other.

As much as i hate the shor glyph (give increased crit, damage, BV after usage!), i could maybe give it a spin. Atm i quite often use SoW, with basically saving 200mp5 while in melee range, it might allow me to use other seals more.
Image
Khayne
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:48 pm
Location: Finland

Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Elsie » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:10 am

For what it's worth, here's what I'd use as pvp prot spec. Some people are reporting a lot of success in 3v3 as prot.

0/54/17
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZVGzArkMGsIufdVf0xb:RjMmzV
-Glyph of Avenger's Shield
-Glyph of Justice
-Glyph of Salvation.

Preferable team set up:
Disc Priest, Paladin, DK (frost or unholy)

Gear set up:
Full ulduar and naxx +BV offset pieces. Highest ilvl weapon you can grab or pvp weapon.
-Gem either STR or Crit depending on what you need.

Why this works:
Basically, you have the following CC:
-6s stun on 20s CD
-3s Silence with 10s Daze on 10s CD.
-Strangulate
-Chains of ice, ~chillblains, ~hungering cold
~Deathgrip
-AoE fear
~Racial 2s silence (1-3)

That's a lot of CC and the big ones (hungering cold, stun, fear) are all on separate CDs. With the glyph of Avenger's shield and tons of BV gear, you can realistically crit Avenger's Shield for 9k holy damage, and ShoR for 10k holy damage. In pvp, you're looking at opponents having 19-28k hp. So you can essentially do 67% someone's hp while silencing them, and follow up 6s later with another ShoR. This is important since you can get another ShoR in before your stun wears off - aka, you can dead-in-a-stun someone by yourself. PvP doesn't happen in a vaccum, but you can't trinket out of silence. It's plausible for a healer to be silenced or cc'd for 6+ seconds with this set up.

If target is a healer: 3s AS + 6s stun. No trinket = dead, trinket = fear/strangulate.
If target is a dps: focus strangulate healer, fear or stun healer (15 yard range with glyph).
Warlocks: lol ShoR -> Exorcism = unhealable pet KO.

Basically, if you played ret before, imagine if stun was 20s, and repentance didn't break on damage, dealt 4.5-9k damage, lasted 3 seconds, and couldn't be trinketed. And slowed the target.

Obviously this isn't a dps strategy. Both prot paladins and DKs have tons of survivability, mixed with CC fairly on par with RMP. You'll win against a lot of teams simply because a 6s stun every 20s will run people out of options since even a ret paladin's BoF is 25s and might get used on a DK slow. Double healer teams may be impossible since this is a burst strategy and sustainable DPS isn't as high as other specs.

Random check for BV:
68 hands
68 shoulders
77 chest
89 pants
68 belt
77 boots
39 bracers
--
486
1005.675 (non-base STR)
x1.35 redoubt and meta
----
1334.930625 BV
x1.3 ShoR multiplier
-----
1735.4098125
+520 ShoR Base
-------
2255.4098125
x1.10 One-Handed Specialization
---
2480.95079375
x1.2 Avenging Wrath
-------
2977.1409525
x2.0 crit
------
5954.281905 damage before weapon, shield
1316.9871 damage from weapon, shield
-----------
7271.269005
1100.56518 DMC:G with proc
--------------
8371.834185
732.254094 rings
------------
9104.088279

So actually to get it over 10k damage you'd need ebon plague for 10287.61975527 damage on a crit. Though I've seen crits for 10k+ in screenshots where people claim 700ish resilience... so... I'm missing something maybe.
User avatar
Elsie
 
Posts: 3819
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:12 pm

Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Splug » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:44 am

I was playing around with 19/52/0 last night with an unholy deathknight. It was interesting, but in holy gear the damage is fairly unimpressive. The core gain is as mentioned the ability to cause three 9+ second lockdowns every 20 seconds (HoJ->AS, HoJ->strang, HoJ->AS), but the healing is really hurt by interrupt vulnerability. Aura mastery helps, but without holy shock, IoL, or even judgements of the pure's haste, any healing comes at a huge risk. Now, if a spell actually casts, the efficiency and raw power on the heals is pretty amazing. I was keeping alive in AD range against an arms warrior while spamming flash of light with -87.5% healing effectiveness (related: I've confirmed that mortal strike, divine plea, and unrelenting assault are all multiplicative) and net-gaining mana. Unfortunately, the second time I had to do it the druid moonfired me down rather than letting the warrior just flail away.

So you can put out strong healing, but only if you can get it in through CC. Acting as an aggressive control bot that backup heals seemed more effective.

-Splug
Active raid character: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... an&n=Spyte
255 characters is not enough to fit my alts' armories in.
User avatar
Splug
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 2381
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:16 am

Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Shalcker » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:20 pm

Elsie wrote:9104.088279

So actually to get it over 10k damage you'd need ebon plague for 10287.61975527 damage on a crit. Though I've seen crits for 10k+ in screenshots where people claim 700ish resilience... so... I'm missing something maybe.

Crusade? it's +6% total damage. You can also use BV libram and/or trinket.

You don't actually need Toughness... it only helps against classes that would already take ages to kill you, and there isn't many situations where 30% duration reduction is useful instead of HoF.

Also, you're forgetting pretty huge thing - SoJ. It's great, really. I tested proc rate and it's about 30% with 2.5 weapon (Broken Promise), something around 7.2-7.5ppm. It'll be even better with 2.6 pvp weapons.

Which means you run in, take a swing, and then it's 3s random stun (on separate diminishing returns from HoJ), then HoJ, then 3s silence from AS, 12 seconds of control in perfect scenario.... which with 30% chance happen often enough.
Last edited by Shalcker on Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Shalcker
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:51 pm

Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Elsie » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:28 pm

You don't actually need Toughness... it only helps against classes that would already take ages to kill you, and there isn't many situations where 30% duration reduction is useful instead of HoF.

30% duration reduction is amazing against short duration slows and you don't always HoF yourself.
Also, you're forgetting pretty huge thing - SoJ. It's great, really. I tested proc rate and it's about 30% with 2.5 weapon (Broken Promise), something around 7.2-7.5ppm. It'll be even better with 2.6 pvp weapons.

And you lose seal damage, so I didn't feel necessary to include it.

Crusade doesn't break 10k btw. The libram does.
User avatar
Elsie
 
Posts: 3819
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:12 pm

Re: [PvP Prot] 3.1

Postby Shalcker » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:39 pm

Elsie wrote:
You don't actually need Toughness... it only helps against classes that would already take ages to kill you, and there isn't many situations where 30% duration reduction is useful instead of HoF.

30% duration reduction is amazing against short duration slows and you don't always HoF yourself.
Maybe. Most slows aren't short though, you can cleanse them against some comps, and some of them are spammable.

Also, you're forgetting pretty huge thing - SoJ. It's great, really. I tested proc rate and it's about 30% with 2.5 weapon (Broken Promise), something around 7.2-7.5ppm. It'll be even better with 2.6 pvp weapons.

And you lose seal damage, so I didn't feel necessary to include it.

Well, it's choice. Seal damage versus random control with high chance. It can interrupt spellcasts, stop dps chasing your healer (or running away from you), delay killing swing for a few seconds, or even force trinket/bubble... Sometimes it wins fights, sometimes it doesn't.
Shalcker
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:51 pm

Next

Return to Off-specs & Other Classes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
?php } else { ?