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[RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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Re: [RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Postby honorshammer » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:20 am

Elsie wrote:
Honorshammer wrote:I went for the utility in the Protection tree because I forsee being Ret when I'm Soloing (gogo PVP server), PVPing and when it's not my 'turn' to tank (we basically rotate through our tanks unless the fight really favors one like Loatheb).

Whatever DPS I contribute when I'm not tanking will be more than I do as Prot, and I'll have the PVP goodies for the other times I need Ret.

Then I suggest you either spec pvp ret or pve ret. Anywhere between is subpar at both.


WTB Triple Spec, pst.

Edit: So I guess the question is, should I PVE in a PVP spec or PVP in a PVE spec?
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Re: [RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Postby Lore » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:22 am

Honorshammer wrote:
Elsie wrote:
Honorshammer wrote:I went for the utility in the Protection tree because I forsee being Ret when I'm Soloing (gogo PVP server), PVPing and when it's not my 'turn' to tank (we basically rotate through our tanks unless the fight really favors one like Loatheb).

Whatever DPS I contribute when I'm not tanking will be more than I do as Prot, and I'll have the PVP goodies for the other times I need Ret.

Then I suggest you either spec pvp ret or pve ret. Anywhere between is subpar at both.


WTB Triple Spec, pst.

Edit: So I guess the question is, should I PVE in a PVP spec or PVP in a PVE spec?


You can still respec normally :P
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Re: [RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Postby Elsie » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:30 am

Honorshammer wrote:
Elsie wrote:
Honorshammer wrote:I went for the utility in the Protection tree because I forsee being Ret when I'm Soloing (gogo PVP server), PVPing and when it's not my 'turn' to tank (we basically rotate through our tanks unless the fight really favors one like Loatheb).

Whatever DPS I contribute when I'm not tanking will be more than I do as Prot, and I'll have the PVP goodies for the other times I need Ret.

Then I suggest you either spec pvp ret or pve ret. Anywhere between is subpar at both.


WTB Triple Spec, pst.

Edit: So I guess the question is, should I PVE in a PVP spec or PVP in a PVE spec?

The only thing you really lose in a pvp build is 3% haste.
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Re: [RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Postby Brokenone » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:24 am

Elsie wrote:The only thing you really lose in a pvp build is 3% haste.


I'm looking at this for a PvP spec:
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVGzVbZVfMxbIuGdIbsu

A PvE spec would probably take the 3% haste and imp might. Anyone have a better variation for a PvP spec? I kind of wanted to find a spare 2 points for Divine Guardian (double duration on sacred shield. yes please), but don't know where the points would come from.
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Re: [RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Postby halabar » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:26 pm

What about this as a ret raiding and farming spec?..

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sZE00VbZVfbxbIuhdIfsu
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Re: [RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Postby Serjero » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:09 pm

If SoR does end up being better then SoB/SoC with the glyph and SotP I'll prolly go that route. Does aura mastery effect additional effects to the auras like Sanctified/Swift retribution? If so definitely gonna go with
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sVVzZVZVfbtbIuhdIfsu

Otherwise I'll prolly just dump point into sensationally useful talents like some of the PvP talents. Going any deeper to prot outside of Divine Strength is pretty mediocre, same could be said about holy though.
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Re: [RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Postby Kaacahk » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:34 pm

Serjero wrote:Going any deeper to prot outside of Divine Strength is pretty mediocre, same could be said about holy though.


Sadly this is too true, what I realize now is if we had 1/10th the tree synergy with holy/prot that DKs have with their entire lower tree, this might be an interesting discussion.

All I see though just reinforces my view that it really doesn't matter what you do with those last 10-15 points, its pretty much tied to how you play or what kinda raid/pvp/heroics stuff your into on the side. It all really a "meh" kinda choice there isn't anything to pick.

:(
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Re: [RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Postby Nalyn » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:09 am

Kaacahk wrote:
Serjero wrote:Going any deeper to prot outside of Divine Strength is pretty mediocre, same could be said about holy though.


Sadly this is too true, what I realize now is if we had 1/10th the tree synergy with holy/prot that DKs have with their entire lower tree, this might be an interesting discussion.


Pretty much, the only thing outside of ret that's a must have is Divine Strength, nothing in holy is of much use to a ret build, pve or pvp, aura mastery might have some interesting uses, espicially if it boosts the talented portions of the auras, but I'm reasonably sure it doesn't. All of the lower tier prot talents, aside from the one already mentioned, are pretty strictly either prot tanking talents, or pvp talents. Divinity seems passable as a PvE ret talent, espicially if Uldar has a lot of raid damage based fights, which gives you enough points in prot to grab Divine Sacrifice, but besides that? Um...ya, still have a handful of points to spend, and nothing really to spend them in.
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Re: [RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Postby Elsie » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:18 am

I'm honestly considering going 0/5/57 now.
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVZVfrtbIuhdIfsu

Though I may cave in for 0/10/57 (the above with divinity) or 11/5/54
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sVVzZVZVfbtbIuhdIfsu

Divinity might not be so bad since it'll work on, presumably, Blood Aura and Judgment of Light (doubly) to mitigate SoB a little.
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Re: [RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Postby Baelor » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:29 am

I'm almost definitely going 0/17/54. Divine Guardian in the hizouse.
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Re: [RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Postby Elsie » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:38 am

Baelor wrote:I'm almost definitely going 0/17/54. Divine Guardian in the hizouse.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sZE0zmbZVfbxbIuhdIfsu
Your proposition isn't bad, but from a DPS standpoint Aura Mastery is, stupidly, maybe a little better.

I also don't really want to spec into something I'll rarely have the mana or time to cast. Or survivability for other people at the cost of my own (e.g. AoE Divine Sacrifice).
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Re: [RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Postby Baelor » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:53 am

Elsie wrote:
Baelor wrote:I'm almost definitely going 0/17/54. Divine Guardian in the hizouse.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sZE0zmbZVfbxbIuhdIfsu
Your proposition isn't bad, but from a DPS standpoint Aura Mastery is, stupidly, maybe a little better.

I also don't really want to spec into something I'll rarely have the mana or time to cast. Or survivability for other people at the cost of my own (e.g. AoE Divine Sacrifice).

Coupled with Divine Shield, Divine Sacrifice doesn't become a suicide. Just because they unlinked the effect from the bubble doesn't mean you can't use them together.

Aura Mastery isn't going to increase damage that much. 10 seconds of doubled Ret Aura procs on the tank isn't, to me, worth going down the holy tree.
If the tank were hit once a second (1.0 boss attack speed with no avoided attacks) for that 10 second period, assuming 300 damage from ret aura, you're looking at 3000 extra damage returned. That's a 300 DPS increase for 10 seconds. That's probably a best case scenario. Most bosses attack more around 2.0-2.5 and the tank will avoid half of them. So a realistic return would be 2-3 extra procs, less than 1000 damage over the 10 second duration.

I'm siding with the ghetto targeted Shield Wall (Hand of Sac + Divine Sac + Divine Shield) and better Sacred Shields. I'm not worried about having the mana to cast Sacred Shield and Divine Sacrifice.
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Re: [RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Postby Elsie » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:57 am

Coupled with Divine Shield, Divine Sacrifice doesn't become a suicide. Just because they unlinked the effect from the bubble doesn't mean you can't use them together.

If it takes a CD you can't couple it without losing DPS.
You can't use Divine Shield without losing DPS.
If you use Divine Shield / Divine Sacrifice to save someone else, you do not have Divine Shield to save yourself.
If you use Divine Shield / Divine Sacrifice to save yourself, you have to macro them together -and- their removal or lose DPS.
If you use Divine Sacrifice without Divine Shield you hurt your survivability.

Basically, you always lose.
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Re: [RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Postby Baelor » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:08 am

Elsie wrote:
Coupled with Divine Shield, Divine Sacrifice doesn't become a suicide. Just because they unlinked the effect from the bubble doesn't mean you can't use them together.

If it takes a CD you can't couple it without losing DPS.
You can't use Divine Shield without losing DPS.
If you use Divine Shield / Divine Sacrifice to save someone else, you do not have Divine Shield to save yourself.
If you use Divine Shield / Divine Sacrifice to save yourself, you have to macro them together -and- their removal or lose DPS.
If you use Divine Sacrifice without Divine Shield you hurt your survivability.

Basically, you always lose.

If the tank dies, you lose.
In the grand scheme, you're not forced to use the cooldown. It's there if your raid needs it.
12 seconds of halved damage is not the end of the world.
If you use Divine Shield to save someone else, you have Divine Protection to save yourself.
Using a GCD to activate the ability is not going to cost an appreciable amount of damage.

You're nitpicking, Elsie. The ability brings more value than an extra 50-100 DPS over the course of the fight. Tank-saver cooldowns are invaluable on some fights.
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Re: [RET] What are other Rets doing with the other 15 points

Postby Baelor » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:17 am

Baelor wrote:
Elsie wrote:
Coupled with Divine Shield, Divine Sacrifice doesn't become a suicide. Just because they unlinked the effect from the bubble doesn't mean you can't use them together.

If it takes a CD you can't couple it without losing DPS.
You can't use Divine Shield without losing DPS.
If you use Divine Shield / Divine Sacrifice to save someone else, you do not have Divine Shield to save yourself.
If you use Divine Shield / Divine Sacrifice to save yourself, you have to macro them together -and- their removal or lose DPS.
If you use Divine Sacrifice without Divine Shield you hurt your survivability.

Basically, you always lose.

If the tank dies, you lose.
In the grand scheme, you're not forced to use the cooldown. It's there if your raid needs it.
12 seconds of halved damage is not the end of the world.
If you use Divine Shield to save someone else, you have Divine Protection to save yourself.
Using a GCD to activate the ability is not going to cost an appreciable amount of damage.

You're nitpicking, Elsie. The ability brings more value than an extra 50-100 DPS over the course of the fight. Tank-saver cooldowns are invaluable on some fights.

To add, if your cooldown and 100-200 DPS personal DPS is sacrificed to stop that 5-6k warlock from dying, or to prevent the tank from dying and a raid wipe, the personal DPS loss was worth it.
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