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[Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption/Rotation

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[Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption/Rotation

Postby Flex » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:42 pm

Base assumptions

4394 Base mana for Paladins
5584 unbuffed human paladin mana

Incoming Mana Per Second

Divine Plea: 5583*25%=1396 mana per 60 sec / 23mps
JotW: 4394*25%=1098 mana per 8 sec / 137mps
Replenishment: 5584*.0025 = 14mps
JoW: 25mps

Roughly 199 mana per second incoming

Outgoing Mana Per Second

Consecration (10 second): 4394 * 19.8% = 870 mana per 10 sec / 87mps
Consecration (8 second): 4394 * 19.8% = 870 mana per 8 sec / 108mps
Crusader Strike (unglyphed): 4394 * 7.2% = 316 mana per 6 sec / 52mps
Crusader Strike (glyphed): 4394 * 5.76% = 253 mana per 6 sec / 42mps
Divine Storm: 4394 * 10.8% = 474 mana per 10 sec / 47mps
Judgement: 4394 * 4.5% = 197 mana per 8 second / 24mps
Exorcism: 4394 *7.2% = 316 mana per 15 seconds / 21mps

No glyphs: 252 mana per second outgoing. 53 mps deficit.
Consecration glyph: 231 mps outgoing. 32 mps deficit.

Now, what did I do wrong?
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Re: [Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption

Postby Lore » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:43 pm

Flex wrote:Now, what did I do wrong?


You modelled every ability with a 100% uptime :P

Cooldown clashing makes this impossible.
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Re: [Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption

Postby Flex » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:45 pm

Lore wrote:
Flex wrote:Now, what did I do wrong?


You modelled every ability with a 100% uptime :P

Cooldown clashing makes this impossible.


So basically...Ret without the SoB glyph is mana positive provided the JotW change stays and you don't botch the rotation so horribly you judge every 45 seconds (exaggerated)?
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Re: [Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption

Postby Lore » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:48 pm

According to Elsie in this thread (which he, in turn, found on Elitist Jerks somewhere), Ret without the SoB glyph can go somewhere around 11 minutes before OOM.

I'm not sure what numbers the EJ poster used to get there though.
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Re: [Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption

Postby Levantine » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:23 am

11 Minutes of Patchwerk to be precise. This doesn't actually happen in game, there's always periods of not doing stuff before we get to 11minute fights.
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Re: [Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption

Postby semp » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:52 am

11 minutes including consecration??
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Re: [Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption

Postby guillex » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:32 am

You also - and this is nitpicking, I know - assumed 5584, then used 5583 in your calculation:

5584 unbuffed human paladin mana

Incoming Mana Per Second

Divine Plea: 5583*25%=1396 mana per 60 sec / 23mps
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Re: [Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption

Postby Shoju » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:22 am

I was able to get on the ptr (I have serious connectivity issues with the ptr for some reason... had a beta wotlk account and got to play.... 3 times?), and did some testing, and I have to say, the new rotation, the new JotW, and no SoB Glyph is nice. I've been very doom and gloom about the changes, but it's not that bad. It's actually pretty nice.


I still have to find a key binding config that works with Exorcism so that I'm not fumbling to hit it.I have it hotkeyed, just not near my 'normal' attacks.
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Re: [Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption

Postby Elsie » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:04 am

Frankly, I think it's at least close enough to where I would go back to Dark runes before Seal of Blood glyph.
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Re: [Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption

Postby Fedaykin98 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:16 am

Shoju wrote:did some testing, and I have to say, the new rotation, the new JotW, and no SoB Glyph is nice.


What rotation were you using?

I assume we can't know for certain what our FCFS priority should be in 3.1 until 3.1 is finalized, but several of our attacks are getting buffed, and Exorcism is getting glyphed.
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Re: [Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption

Postby Lore » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:49 am

Bellator's spreadsheet (updated today) is giving me the best numbers with:

Judge > Cons > DS > Exo > CS

I'm not completely sure why.
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Re: [Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption

Postby Baelor » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:53 am

Lore wrote:Bellator's spreadsheet (updated today) is giving me the best numbers with:

Judge > Cons > DS > Exo > CS

I'm not completely sure why.

Something's gotta be wrong with Bellator's sheet. That sounds way off. I'd expect Cons to be last, considering the changes to DS/CS/Exo on the PTR.

Does Redcape's sheet allow for rotational modeling? I haven't used it, but from second-hand reports I'd trust his sheet to Bellator's.
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Re: [Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption

Postby Lore » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:00 am

Well, the trick to the priority system is that cooldown conflicts make pushing buttons that aren't as good better overall. Even in 3.0.9, it's better to prioritize DS or Consecration over CS just because you actually end up with a higher CS uptime that way.

My suspicion is that's what's going on.
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Re: [Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption

Postby Lore » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:03 am

Using Bellator/Exemplar's numbers gets me the following stat weights:

Strength: 100
Hit: 66.6
Expertise: 52.6
Agility: 45.4
Crit: 45.4
Raw AP: 40
Armor Pen: 35.8
Haste: 28.6
Spell Power: 12.8

Wowhead link

Seems pretty close to what I'd expect. Not sure exactly what happened between AGI and Crit to give me the same numbers.
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Re: [Ret] 3.1 Mana Consumption

Postby Elsie » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:35 am

Bellator is probably assuming Damage Per Move, not Damage per CD. For example, Divine Storm potentially does more damage than Crusader Strike. But Crusader Strike every 6s does more damage than Divine Storm every 10s. Thus, Crusader Strike is of a higher priority than Divine Storm. Consecration is different. It's a DoT, thus using it earlier separates CDs as well as deals damage during CD conflicts.

There's other explanations. You could be assuming the Divine Storm +crit libram. DS and CS modifiers are calculated differently (some +x% are additive where others are multiplicative). DS could be assumed to hit multiple mobs. There might not be an account for CS now dealing RV damage.

I know right now it's generally Judgement > consecration > CS > DS > Exorcism > Holy Wrath. Though sometimes in practice you must do CS > Judge for CD conflicts. Using Cons -> DS would be smart in the sense that they will never, ever conflict that way being 10s CDs. But that also essentially creates a much longer CS cool down.

Also I'm not sure how ArP can be weighted higher than Haste. We gain 30% more effectiveness from haste, but only 25% more ArP in 3.1. Since currently Haste slightly edges out ArP, it's hard to imagine ArP being better.
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