[Ret PvP] Righteous Vengence in 3.1?

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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[Ret PvP] Righteous Vengence in 3.1?

Postby Jasari » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:11 am

I don't have much experience with Ret PvP, but with the overflow of badges I have from farming content for the last couple months and nothing to spend them on I've decided to get a PvP set and do some 2v2 with my priest friend when 3.1 goes live.

I know that right now most Ret Pallies don't take RV in PvP because it makes Repentance worthless. In 3.1 though, with it proccing off CS, and having CS and DS damage buffed, it should be ticking quite a bit harder (it does rolling procs right?).

So I'm just wondering if it'll be more useful in 3.1 and worth the down side of gimping repentance.

Thoughts?
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Re: [Ret PvP] Righteous Vengence in 3.1?

Postby Lore » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:29 am

My suspicion is that Ret has plenty of damage already and it would be better to dig into Prot and Holy for some extra utility (especially with JotW going to 25%).
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Re: [Ret PvP] Righteous Vengence in 3.1?

Postby Jasari » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:42 am

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Right now, I'm planning on going with:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin ... rsion=9722

with an extra talent point to throw somewhere... maybe SoCommand? Does anyone still use that?
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Re: [Ret PvP] Righteous Vengence in 3.1?

Postby Baelor » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:44 am

In PvP, most teams with a Ret are all about timed burst. The nature of Damage over Time (DoT) spells like Righteous Vengeance doesn't fit into the framework.

If you ended up on a drain or an out-last team, RV might be good to stack on top of a warlock's DoT's or something. But, you'd be hard pressed to find a functional out-last team that would take on a ret paladin.
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Re: [Ret PvP] Righteous Vengence in 3.1?

Postby Elsie » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:52 am

I'm taking RV. It ignores armor and resilience (beyond the initial crit, which I'm not sure about either). It works well with any composition and is certainly strong against low resilience targets (read: most plate users, especially holy paladin). If you figure a 6 second stun then they'll take almost the entire RV damage during the burst. I'm toying with the idea of holy paladin / warrior / ret paladin using kings, imp shout, and double BoF with the new warrior abilities. Then in 5v5 warrior/ret/dk/ resto shm/something (probably lock or mage).
Though I think shadow play is going to be ripping arena a new one in season 6.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin=00000000000000000000000000053201042000000000000000005232250203321322133201331&glyph=101719060504&version=9722
If you ended up on a drain or an out-last team, RV might be good to stack on top of a warlock's DoT's or something. But, you'd be hard pressed to find a functional out-last team that would take on a ret paladin.

Ret's really good for an outlast team. Seal of Blood glyph is entirely mana positive gains, divinity is great for efficiency, and replenishment is easily accessed. Combined with heals it can work pretty good.

At any rate, if you're looking at burst, RV is essentially +20-30% damage.
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Re: [Ret PvP] Righteous Vengence in 3.1?

Postby Lore » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:24 am

Disagree that SoB glyph is entirely positive mana gains -- it doesn't offset the healing you'll have to do (or receive) at some point or another to make up for the self-damage.
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Re: [Ret PvP] Righteous Vengence in 3.1?

Postby Elsie » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:27 am

Lore wrote:Disagree that SoB glyph is entirely positive mana gains -- it doesn't offset the healing you'll have to do (or receive) at some point or another to make up for the self-damage.

My meaning was SoB glyph was entirely positive mana gain post rotation (which has been worked out for PvE).

If you threw in healing it's a new ballgame, but not necessarily negative if you're running a group who would use Wild Growth or Beacon of Light. To me that's a separate analysis though.

Although if you crit for 10k, recoil for 3k, that's 300 mana for 2 FoL which heal ~2000 base, then you have crits, sheathe, and Sacred Shield.
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Re: [Ret PvP] Righteous Vengence in 3.1?

Postby Lore » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:37 am

Yeah but it's kind of a wash at that point imo.

Either way it depends largely on how you play. I tend to play pretty defensively for Ret Arena (I use SoComm and heal a lot). I also do 2v2's more than anything else, so I'm usually the only healer.
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Re: [Ret PvP] Righteous Vengence in 3.1?

Postby Elsie » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:54 am

Lore wrote:Yeah but it's kind of a wash at that point imo.

Either way it depends largely on how you play. I tend to play pretty defensively for Ret Arena (I use SoComm and heal a lot). I also do 2v2's more than anything else, so I'm usually the only healer.

SoB glyph is probably more potent than you think. The SoB glyph, basically, scales much faster than anticipated.
(all data except FoL jacked from Exemplar on EJ)

Time to OOM Solo without the SoB glyph, and using consecrate, is 83 seconds.
Time to OOM solo with the SoB glyph and not the consecrate glyph is 82 seconds.
Time to OOM 25-Man Raid without the SoB glyph, and using consecrate, is 778 seconds.
Time to OOM 25-Man Raid with the SoB glyph and not the consecrate glyph is 10693 seconds.

For more hard values, the SoB glyph is 25-35 mp5 in raid gear.
Consecrate every 10 seconds is 87 mana per second
Consecrate every 8 seconds is 109 mana per second

Flash of Light used in place of consecrate would be 27.68 mps or 34.68 mps. So one might conclude that SoB is mana neutral now if you FoL once per rotation. On the other hand, you might have a net gain with Sacred Shield and Sheathe still. If it's a wash, then the clear favorite is SoB since it does more damage than SoC.

At any rate, using the Seal of Blood glyph wouldn't be too great in anything but 2v2. For 3v3 you would want judgement, exorcism, and salvation. For 2v2 you could sub out exorcism or judgement.
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