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(10) Sartharion + Tenebron

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(10) Sartharion + Tenebron

Postby Maridian » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:29 pm

Our guild is having a certain amount of problems with Sarth+Tenebron; I thought I'd ask for advice.

Composition consists of two pally tanks, two priest healers, and 6 ranged DPS (normally).

The fight goes like this:

Sarthy engaged, all as normal.
Tenebron lands, all is well.
Tenebron hatches eggs.
Whelps run through raid, slaughtering everyone.
QQ.

Our problem is that we have no reliable way to get the whelps onto the drake tank without risking breath instagib. Any recommendations? Or is this simply not possible with this composition?

(We also tried running it with a DPS-geared DK OTing the whelps. They slaughtered him.)
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Postby Avengeance » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:59 pm

just get a 3rd full tank, if you do +1 with tenebron, DPS isnt evn an issue, a full tank can just keep tanking whelps (even double wave if your dps is slow). But I'll recommend you aoe down whelps every time they spawn if your tanks arent geared enough.
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Postby Maridian » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:44 pm

I meant to imply with my post, "Assume we can't change our composition." Our guild has two tanks, two healers.

Unfortunately, add management is proving a substantial problem on all of our attempts at Sartharion+1. I'm not certain if this is because of our composition or because our drake tank is having trouble picking them up, but any advice in general would be appreciated.
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Postby Avengeance » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:23 pm

Then the drake pala tank need to move himself to near the portal exit with the drake and drop a consecration there. Make sure he doesnt face the drake to the raid (your raid is full ranged, so that should be no problem). From experience, when whelps exit, jsut moments before that usually is a flame wall - you really just have to get the drake tank to drop a consecration between whelp exit path and he healers.

Alternatively if your drake tank has fast fingers, as soon as you see whelps spawn, throw an AS, then Righteous defense the other 3 (they all tend to aggro on the same healer), then just use single taunt incase something misses. If you have hunters, get some multishot misdirects.

Using a DPS DK works, at least what I heard, but i think they might have a dedicated healer for him, or at least the DK is in partial tank gear. I never tried using a DK DPS OT myself tho, always went with 3 full tanks.
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Postby Andox » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:26 am

Do you have a Paladin healer? If so, tell him to put up RF and stand behind Tenebron, the adds will aggro him and stay in your Consecration and it will be much easier to pick them up. We use that tactic on our 25 man kills, in that way we know exactly where the fire andds and whelps are going. :wink:

Edit. I fail at reading since you stated your setup. Do you have any Hunter? put down a FrostTrap where they spawn so you can pick them up easier.
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Postby PsiVen » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:10 am

The dilemma of handling whelps efficiently without a 3rd full tank is one of the hardest parts of Sarth+3, apart from the DPS checks. Believe it or not from your perspective there's not much more to +3 than +Tenebron. It's all about positioning. This is what worked for us.

Image

Tenebron spawns in the west, tank pulls him towards the middle, NOT the edge.

Green = Sarth
Teal = where the drake tank should end up. The Sarth tank is on either side of Sarth, I think I drew him on the opposite end that we usually use actually.
Purple = Ranged pile
Dark blue = portal

The portal always spawns there, and the whelps diffuse towards the raid from that spot. If you position yourself between the raid and the portal, you will catch them with a well timed Consecration. Sometimes a firewall will wash over right before they spawn, in which case it may not be possible to get the timing you need.

Also, it's not always whelps that are killing folks. You still have to pick up those lava blazes. Both taunts, AS for emergencies and J/HotR for close ones should take care of that.


For completeness, when you move on to +2/+3 there's a bit more. If you can kill Tenebron before the 2nd set of whelps you probably have the DPS to do Sarth+3. Shadron will spawn shortly after the first whelps, blow your shield wall as soon as you drop under 50% or a double breath will instagib. As soon as Tenebron and his whelps are dead, run to the opposite side to pick up Vesperon. Tanking the two of them will be less painful, but your healers will be worrying more about the MT. Once Shadron is dead you can relax a bit.
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Postby easttuth » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:48 pm

Try having Sarth and Tenebron both on MT. The OT should have no problem picking up all of the adds. Bring adds under the bosses between whelp spawns and let any melee cleave/WW/DS/Pest for a few seconds while DPS'ing Tenebron. In doing this, you keep the population of adds manageable while focusing DPS on the drake. This also allows healers to focus on the MT. There is no potential for MT insta-gib with Sarth+1, as long as he's Naxx10 geared.

Positioning is also key. My guild recently tweaked our positioning while practicing Sarth10+2. Moving the MT back just a few yards made all the difference in the world for Ranged DPS and Healing consistency.
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Postby Parv » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:34 am

We've been doing the 10 man Sarth +1 with a warrior tank MT'ing, me OT'ing Ten and a DK on the whelps and elementals.

We struggled the first couple times but we've got it now. I am fully convinced I can handle Ten, the whelps and the elementals. The raid leader is only convinced that we can do it with 3 tanks.

I think with appropriate use on Consecration, AS and RD I can pull it off. I figure if I front load threat on Ten, I can keep him glued to me with SotR. Then I can use Cons, AS and RD to pull the adds.

My real question is would I want to use HoR on its CD's or wait until whelps/elementals are in range?

If figure at worst, I'll just say we don't need a dedicated 3rd tank, but a DPS DK to stand in my Cons and pull the adds to me.
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Postby Nalyn » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:03 pm

Ya, the tank part seems to be the rub for the 10 man Sarth+2, or +3. Bring 3 tanks to have that extra tank to deal with the adds, but at the same time, the only point in time that you really need 3rd tank for the adds is when dealing with the whelp spawns, beyond that, your drake tank (with a bit of practice), can likely handle the fire elementals and the drake(s).

Makes me wonder if the damage intake from the whelps is low enough that you could have a ret pally, or dps DK tank and/or kill them, maybe have them wear pvp gear for the HP boost, and to be crit immune?
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Postby Sederia » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:48 pm

Parv wrote:I am fully convinced I can handle Ten, the whelps and the elementals.
should be able to, when we did it with Sarth + Ten we did it with 2, warrior on Sarthy, me on everything else
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Postby BlackKnight6667 » Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:58 am

Nalyn wrote:Ya, the tank part seems to be the rub for the 10 man Sarth+2, or +3. Bring 3 tanks to have that extra tank to deal with the adds, but at the same time, the only point in time that you really need 3rd tank for the adds is when dealing with the whelp spawns, beyond that, your drake tank (with a bit of practice), can likely handle the fire elementals and the drake(s).

Makes me wonder if the damage intake from the whelps is low enough that you could have a ret pally, or dps DK tank and/or kill them, maybe have them wear pvp gear for the HP boost, and to be crit immune?


Another option is Feral druid for the 3rd tank. I'm a Paly (MT), we have a Druid as our OT (normally) and a DK usually servers as a third Tank when we need one. We have the Feral as the Drake, Me on MT, and the DK on the Adds. As soon as the Drake goes down, the Feral goes Cat and heads in to do DPS.

Of course this works for us, but as you said you have limmited resources. :(
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Postby Samilyn » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:43 pm

It's worth repeating that the Sarth tank can also tank the Drakes, leaving you plenty of opportunity to grab the whelps.

I wonder why you chose to leave Tenebron up. Of all three drakes, he's the most complicated to leave up for Sarth+1 with two tanks. Shadron and especially Vesperon will increase damage intake over Tenebron, but are much simpler to tank.
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Postby Bregor » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:27 am

We do 10men+Tenebron with the MT also tanking the drake. Tank Sartharion where you would tank him with +0 so that you can easily pick up Tenebron when he lands. DPS should chill until you have aggro, then nuke him. Tanking the whelps as a paladin it is important that you have a consecration ticking at the portal when they spawn. The spawn usually coincides with a firewall.
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