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[25] Problems with Patchwerk

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Postby Elixirs » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:09 pm

We did this fight for the first time on Saturday with great success. Killed him on the first attempt with 4 pugs. Many of our healers have never seen the encounter before in 10 man or 25 man.

I was main tanking with 34.5K HP
Warrior Off tank with 35.5K HP
Warrior #2 Off tank with 33.5K HP

I had one dedicated priest healer on me. Had a holy paladin and resto shaman on warrior #1. Two priest healers on warrior #2. We had one remaining priest healer that bounced around to help out where needed.

Mana didn't seem to be an issue as we downed him with 2 minutes left on enrage timer. We didn't use any gimmicks like making the melee dps jump in the slime or anything. The only problem we had was two of our top DPS inadvertently taking a strike around the 1 minute mark. Both were immediately battle rezed and continued on for the rest of the fight without issue.

At 5% I used Divine Protection, one warrior used Shield Wall, and the other warrior (ironically the one that just told the other warrior to use Shield Wall) forgot to pop it and promptly bit the dust.
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Postby Corman » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:18 am

We've had problems with patchwerk. Briefly: Been running 10s, then 2 sets of 10s, and now enough to run 25s. Due to threat issues, I ended up maintanking him in 10s. However, in 25s, our OTs were getting nuked. Through luck and pluck, I managed to tank him for a full minute or more with no offtanks (and obviously no melee as they were all dead). Our RL thought at first it would work well as all he did was put his beacon on me and kept me up the whole time without a true healer and spread himself and the other 6 healers (7 healers) across combinations of 2 and 3 offtanks. I recommended dropping me back to offtank which we will try this week but would anyone have a recommendation what types of healers to bring and how they should focus? It seems obvious that pallies would be good (and it seems the 2 or 3 resto druids were not exactly good choices that we had). Resto shammy originally tried chainheal but we weren't certain how well that was working. Any recommendations are welcome.
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Postby dmok » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:33 am

Corman wrote:across combinations of 2 and 3 offtanks.

3 OTs will not help you, unless 1 of your OTs dies. Patchwerk ONLY hatefuls #2 and #3 in melee threat.

For pallys, your best bet is to bacon 1 of the OTs and heal the other.
Resto druids are great at MT healing on this, while also rolling hots on the OTs.
Chain heal from resto shamans is fantastic, since only 3 people should ever be below full life, and those 3 are your tanks.

This is a spam-heal fight. At no time should your healers not be casting a heal. Otherwise keep your trinkets on CD, and have your DPS step it up so your healers don't go OOM.

We normally run with 6 healers in 25s. We have 2 per OT, 1 on the MT, and a resto druid who floats hots on all 3. Bacon is OP on this fight.
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Postby Playdoh » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:33 am

2 healers each on a tank.

let's say healer 1, 2, and 3 are 1st to heal tanks, and healers a,b,c are 2nd to heal their tanks.

1,2, and 3 start pre-casting at the pull their biggest heal (one on each of the 3 tanks), the heals should land at about the time that Patchwerk gets to melee.

There is no way to tell at the beginning which tank is going to take the 1st hateful.

After 2 or 3 seconds a,b, and c start casting their biggest heals. This gives a steady big heal to all 3 tanks.

Healers keep casting their biggest heals, and interupt if it's not needed to conserve mana. After the initial pull, the MT can probably be single healed, allowing one of the healers to concentrate on one of the ot's.

The healers cannot wait until 1st dmg is done on this fight, because usually 2 hatefuls happen very quickly. Also the healers can't start casting at the same time because the dmg happens too fast.

The fight actually calms down and has a rhythm after the initial dmg.
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Postby Wolvar » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:15 pm

There is no way to tell at the beginning which tank is going to take the 1st hateful.


Sure there is. The tank with the most hitpoints...
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Postby Anubisknight » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:29 pm

Wolvar wrote:
There is no way to tell at the beginning which tank is going to take the 1st hateful.


Sure there is. The tank with the most hitpoints...


On 25 man, it seems to be the one with highest threat (or 2nd highest since MT will be at the top). One of our dps warriors found this out the hard way during our tuesday kill. My exorcism and SotR both missed (go figure), and the warrior went squish.
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Postby Kelaan » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:59 pm

I think he means, the highest health of the 2nd and 3rd threat people.

We generally have all melee stay out until all 3 tanks have gotten threat (and hatefuls on the two hateful tanks). After ~5 secs, they all go in and have few worries.
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Postby dmok » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:09 am

Playdoh wrote:There is no way to tell at the beginning which tank is going to take the 1st hateful.

This is not true.

When your tanks go in at the start of the fight, they should be the only ones in melee. Only the MT should hit patchwerk in the first 2-3s of the fight. This leaves 2 OTs tied for 2nd in threat with 0. The OT that eats the first hateful will be the one with the highest health, since patchwerk's hateful rules are:

1. Check #2 and #3 in melee threat
2. Hateful whichever one has the highest current health
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Postby Corman » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:05 pm

So we finally downed Patch25.... unintentionally with no offtanks (or melee, the poor bar stewards... ).

Corman: Ok, OT1 and OT2, group up on me....
Corman: Ok, pulling!
2 seconds later
OT1: F@ck
Healer1: Sorry...
30 seconds later
OT2: ...
RetPally *splat*
DPSWar *splat*
DK *splat*
Rogue: Oh come on, I just got hit for like 50K!
Healer1: All heals on Corman.
5 minutes later, we downed him... amazingly. My healers seriously freaking rule sometimes.

I tried suggesting me as OT and they did that once but they didn't like it and put me back to MT (i did drop from some obscene amount of dps to i think only 1300, and was still riding threat on that attempt and the MT eventually got killed too and they went oom healing him i think).

I also suggested the 2 pallies each go one to an OT and beacon but they claim its too hard to keep it up as it has a life of 1m or something... i think thats a bs answer but... well... I'm not the GM or RL 8)

On a hilariously funny note, we failed at Thaddius about 4 times.... it was half the raids first time fighting him because we recruited alot of newbs to fill out 25s. In all honestly, they learned fast.

Attempt #1: Thad down to 60 percent then enraged.
Attempt #2: Thad down to 40 percent then enraged.
Attempt #3: Thad down to 25 percent then enraged.
Attempt #4:

I shat you not, our GM failed the jump on his DK. He failed UNTIL AFTER I WAS DEAD (due to enrage). He made the jump AFTER I was dead finally. Thad was at 2.1M HP when I died.

GM: I swear, do they put a debuff on you to make you fail this after it starts?
RL: Some mage go put a freaking slowfall or something on him.
GM: You can't make this jump, seriously....
Me (I better apologize to him because I'm sometimes a sarcastic prick and he's actually a really nice guy): There's 24 people up here who would disagree with that....
Me: Freaking make the jump... your buff alone will make or break this, even if you do no dps.... (based upon our percentage and the timer, which proved to be correct).

I'm sure we'll get it on Thursday or Sunday night's raid.

The learning curve was simply:

MOVE FAST
MOVE IN THE PROPER PATTERN
STACK PROPERLY

Took them only 2 attempts to get that right.

I have hope yet.
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Postby Kelaan » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:18 pm

Corman wrote:I also suggested the 2 pallies each go one to an OT and beacon but they claim its too hard to keep it up as it has a life of 1m or something... i think thats a bs answer but... well... I'm not the GM or RL 8)

Wait, seriously? They have to cast Beacon four times in a 3 minute fight, and complain? It doubles their healing throughput on this fight, at the cost of four GCDs. The other paladin's Beacon'd heal will be healing their target in that 1.5 seconds that they're not casting a Holy Light.

Talk to your healing lead and your raid leader about this, as it seems the holy paladins are being unnaturally dense. Would your resto shamans not drop a heroism?
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Postby Corman » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:17 pm

Yup, not kidding. I'll plead with our RL to force him to macro it or something if he can't be bothered to switch targets or set his healbot to do it.
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Postby Prope » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:28 am

We've been having problems here as well, I think our biggest problem is that were are very druid-healer heavy.

Our last healer setup was:

3 druids
2 paladins
1 shammy

I think we will have pretty much the same setup next time, and our tanking set up will be, me maintanking, a druid as the 1. ot and a warrior as 2 ot.

What would you do in terms of distributing the healers?

i was thinking about having both paladins on the druid and their bacon on the warrior and then a druid on all the tanks and the shammy spamming chain heal. Would that be any good, or would it be better to have each ot have their own paly?
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Postby Barsine » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:10 am

Beacon doesn't stack, but anyway:

Setup 1:
1 druid alone on the MT
1 druid, 1 paladin and the shaman on the OT druid. Beacon on MT.
1 druid and the 2nd paladin on the 2nd OT. Beacon on first OT.

Setup 2:
Shaman on the MT.
1 paladin on the OT. 2 druids focusing this OT.
2nd paladin on the 2nd OT.
3rd druid doing lol-lifebloom+regrowth+rejuv rotation on all 3 tanks.

Setup 3 (only 2 tanks = higher dps, but more riskful):
Shaman on the MT.
Both paladins + 2 druids on the druid OT.
3rd druid doing lol-lifebloom+regrowth+rejuv rotation on all 3 tanks.

As you say, being druid heavy is a bit of a problem for you since druids will be weaker than the other classes on this particular fight. 1 druid is really nice to have though to have his hot-rotation on all tanks. A priest with wings is generally close to a must here for a smooth kill, since the different castingtimes will fuck up at some point and 4/5 heals will be overheals at one second while the tank might die the next second.
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Postby Prope » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:25 am

Barsine wrote:Beacon doesn't stack


Ups, nice to know before making a fool of myself in the guild :oops:
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Postby Prope » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:59 am

Does all agree with the above?

We have a big discussion in the guild on what is the best.

Palys healing mt, beacon on ot or the other way around.
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