Question about The Four Horsemen ( 10 man)

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Question about The Four Horsemen ( 10 man)

Postby zandoff » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:03 am

Hi All

While waiting for the lovely single target taunt due, has anyone found a sure fire way of swapping tanks on the Kor'Thazz and Rivendaire phase of this fight.

I tank with a warrior in 10 man Nax and find I can out aggro him pretty easily. We go for the swap, I taunt first then he taunts his target after which I only use single target abilities on my new target until I have pulled it back. Sometimes it works, other times the warrior target comes running back to me. It seems to be about 50:50

Is it purely the warrior taunt running out and him not having enough aggro at that point, with me still having accumulated aggro on my previous target. I try to gain as much aggro as possible on Kor'Thazz so the DPS can nuke hard. The only other way I can see to do this is to keep my aggro lower on my initial target so the warrior can get 110% faster- this would mean me slowing down before the changeover. There is only one DPS player who would have to be careful of aggro.

Any thoughts please.

Thanks.

Zand
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Postby Gamingdevil » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:27 am

Taunt does two things:
1) places a debuff on the mob forcing it to attack you
2) gives you exactly as much threat as the person that had aggro.

So it's not you having too much threat, it's your SoV ticking and maybe a HotR hit that is overaggroing, in which case he should shield slam and get it over with.

Or his taunt resisted, which you can't really help, get him more hit...
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Postby zandoff » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:20 am

Thanks- I think you may be correct about a ticking SoV- I'll have a look at that.
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Postby Elsie » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:45 am

Tell your warrior to charge/intercept/intervene + taunt + shield slam then move him. There's no reason to mess around with ranged taunting here when there's plenty of time between marks.

If it keeps happening, just swap to Seal of Light or something till vengeance wears off to be ready for the swap. With an early wings your threat will be fine.
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Postby Invisusira » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:47 am

No need to mess around with charge/intercept/christmas boogie, all you have to do is taunt first... which is very easy, since our taunt is ranged.

You taunt off him as soon as his mob is in range, and he taunts your mob as he runs past. Cake.

I just re-read your post, and it seems that the problem you're having is your warrior losing threat after taunting. I'm... not sure what to say about that besides "your warrior is pretty bad." A single shield slam should easily put him above whatever residual threat you may have.
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Postby zandoff » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:08 am

Thanks for the replies- he knows his class TBH. I will make sure there are no residual seals on. Paladin taunt has a range of 40 yds- I think warrior is 20, so you're quite right, no need to even come close :D
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Postby Fridmarr » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:01 pm

zandoff wrote:Thanks for the replies- he knows his class TBH. I will make sure there are no residual seals on. Paladin taunt has a range of 40 yds- I think warrior is 20, so you're quite right, no need to even come close :D

I think they made them all the same range, but you are casting yours on him, and he has to cast his on the mob. The mobs will be lagging behind a bit so you will be able to cast yours earlier. Have him wait another second and make sure he lands an attack in short order so his mob sticks.
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Postby zandoff » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:42 am

I have a macro for RD and I can cast it on the mob rather than an attacked player if I want to. I have never really thought about the dynamics of this and whether RD will then only be active on that mob or if it will still be multi target.

Thinking about it harder, RD only targets up to 3 mobs attacking a player, so should not taunt the mob I already have attacking me, so I think it must come down to a residual seal ticking.

Thanks for all the advice as usual- it's very useful to have some other thoughts to calrify my own.

Cheers

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Postby majiben » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:22 am

You haven't needed a macro to target the mob and taunt in ages.
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Postby phaqueue » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:56 am

zandoff wrote:I have a macro for RD and I can cast it on the mob rather than an attacked player if I want to. I have never really thought about the dynamics of this and whether RD will then only be active on that mob or if it will still be multi target.

Thinking about it harder, RD only targets up to 3 mobs attacking a player, so should not taunt the mob I already have attacking me, so I think it must come down to a residual seal ticking.

Thanks for all the advice as usual- it's very useful to have some other thoughts to calrify my own.

Cheers

Zand


first... you haven't needed the macro for a while.... and 2 - even if you are targeting the mob - it still keys off the player... all it is doing when you are targeting the mob is using the ToT info to forward the spell to the player...

easiest way to prove this - you are tanking x mob... hunter is standing at max range (46 yds i believe if specced)... mob aggros on hunter - who immediately runs... you try to taunt the mob that is still in melee range (and you are targeting) and get "out of range"

no matter what you are targeting - it still keys off the player... that's just how the taunt works...

if it keyed off the mob - it wouldn't be able to taunt 3 things from the player while you are targeting the mob to taunt...
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Postby zandoff » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:16 am

Looks like I need to get rid of my ancient macro then :P
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Postby Vaxas » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:23 pm

I can vouch for the taunt there....its an aoe taunt any way you look at it. Tried to do 4 horsemen with me and another pally tanking and the swap was...lets see how do I put this..Uncontrolled choas sounds about right. Although it was comical dont do this with 2 pally MT's use another tank with a single target taunt.
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Postby Ashmadai » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:33 am

It's actually quite easy with 2 prot pallies too. The last 2 weeks it's been 2 Prot pallies in there on 10 man and one of my buddies(DPS DK) just taunts then I taunt off him. Easy as pie. Of course if we have a bloodlust at the beginning of the fight Thane is dead before we even get to 4 marks and we don't switch at all, so it's irrelevant in that case.

I will surely like having the single target taunt. Honestly the biggest PITA with 2 pally tanks is probably Grobbulus adds because consecrate + HotR gets them on you hard and the other tank can't taunt them without taunting grob too.
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Postby Wolvar » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:37 am

No reason to offtank grob adds unless they get off the MT. Just burn them down wherever they are. Have your OT only taunt if it charges a caster.
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Postby Rasmfrackn » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:42 pm

Maybe it depends on your 4H strategy...

If you aren't both concerned with spamming out max threat because you're doing a slow-kill rotation strategy, it might be possible that the first taunt swap has a very low threat ceiling, which lets your SoV ticks pull him back. (-- Or if you swap at a very low mark count, I guess.)

E.g. if you only build 40k threat and then he taunts, you might get that 4k threat back from SoV ticks as he's running. If you build 100k threat and then he taunts, he's got a 10k threat buffer to work with to start throwing attacks out.

It sounds like a weird situation... that's all I can think of.
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