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The extreme lameness of the priest requirement in Naxx/25

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Postby Worldie » Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:59 am

Not "that" lame, you are supposed to have one priest in raid for fortitude anyway, and you are supposed to have a backup one in your roster.

So Blizzard assumes every guild can afford having 2 priests of any spec. Actually more, due to the overpoweredness of CoH. And every guild does, bare some exceptions.
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Postby majiben » Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:08 am

There's a difference between assuming that you have 1-2 warm priest bodies (despite the fact you could keep them in group 6 and use them as only a buff bot) and assuming that you have two priests near hit capped and competent players.

I'm sure no one would be happy if you needed 3 paladins for a remake of the paladin charger event in scholomance. Blizzard could assume you need at least 2 for BoK and BoW and one extra just in case.
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Postby MrDuck » Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:21 am

Worldie wrote:Not "that" lame, you are supposed to have one priest in raid for fortitude anyway, and you are supposed to have a backup one in your roster.

So Blizzard assumes every guild can afford having 2 priests of any spec. Actually more, due to the overpoweredness of CoH. And every guild does, bare some exceptions.
Well yeah, we usually have one,that wont cut it though. Now one other priest dinged 80 so we might be fixed, but still, they wanted to make the game like if player x wont show up so it wont break the raid...and this is like the only exception i know, and since it affects my guild, it pisses me off a lot :<
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Postby Morganim » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:57 am

MrDuck wrote:
Morganim wrote:How is it hard, i seriously dont understand it.

On 25 man, 1 person OT's 4 adds in a pile
2x Priests with some +hit gear on MC them out of the pack and have a whirl tanking with 3 buttons. When the 2nd tank taunts run into the pack 'tank im dropping star' tank shield slams star. priest MC's a new one.
Dont QQ at hit gear, theres some cheap rep shit that would take u 5 mins and 100-200 gold to get enough to not have constant breaks.
And if your priests are to bad to be able to work out on vent when one taunts etc then you have much much bigger issues.
We 3 healed this fight with serious ease, 1 on raid + dagger, 1 on adds, 1 on both.

Faerlina, just have a couple tanks taunt + shield wall through each enrage and get yourself an achievement if your priests really do suck that much.

Also get new priests its not hard
Yeah well, what if we just don't have these priests, and don't have spots for them? We do faerlina easily, healing through enrage is easymode, but razuvious just sucks. We have our setup running, and we might possibly get 2 priests into our next raid, but it means dropping someone from our core setup and shit...Isn't that lame?


Sorry any guild that doesnt have a rotating roster of players including multiple p[eople of the same class is destined to fail!, end of story, no iffs, buts or excuses.

Learn to rotate a team fo 30-35 people minimum through 25 man content of be prepared to fail at world of casualcraft
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Postby MrDuck » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:00 am

Morganim wrote:Sorry any guild that doesnt have a rotating roster of players including multiple p[eople of the same class is destined to fail!, end of story, no iffs, buts or excuses.

Learn to rotate a team fo 30-35 people minimum through 25 man content of be prepared to fail at world of casualcraft
Like why,,,we do have a few people to rotate,but usually not healers. We didn't have to cancel a single raid in LK yet. We have enough people to tank, to dps, and if needed to heal, some of our dpsers can go for healing spec and world wont break, the only thing is we have just 1 fucking priest. Where's the motto "bring any of your friends and get raid done"...we do that and it doesnt work...im not saying i'd bitch about blizz doing something else than we see, it can happen in such big game, but saying this requirement isnt lame...

Was warrior tank requirement on RoS annoying for pally maintanks? You couldnt do RoS without a warrior tank and we all wanted this situations to be gone... This is exactly the same.
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Postby Worldie » Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:35 am

This is not because you can do Razovious without, either through some fun thing (Magetanking), or with some skillful play (Hunter/Paladin hot potato).


And near hitcapped is bullshit, you need 5% hit, 3% you get from talents, if you are shadow you are automatically hitcapped against those mobs.


Priests are a fairly common class. Every guild got at least 1. Most guilds will have 2 to 5 of them.
The fact that maybe one guild every 100 doesn't have 2 priests doesn't mean the content should cather them.

Back then, RoS was tuned on warriors, true. But how many guilds did not have any warrior (prot or dps) in the guild? Is that really different from 0?



Saying Razovius is lame is just a way to not say "damn, we have been lazy and did not recruit 2 retards who can mind control". If you are really THAT desperate, help someone in the guild to get a priest alt to 80, problem solved. While i do agree that putting the mind controlling orbs in 25 men might be a good idea, Razovius is in no way a design failure.
p.s. original Razovius was by far more fun than this one. There you could have had to complain about hitcapped priests and over 9k rogues/dps wars.
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Postby Martie » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:04 am

I agree that having to have two priests with the proper gear (or spec) sucks for this fight, but I strongly disagree with the people saying that the fight sucks because people have to learn the fight.

And honestly, I think it's refreshing to have some bosses that are tanked in a different manner then usual. Right now, I know of three different tactics to succeed at the fight, and I think there should be more, but there are too many questions left open, like what happens if you disarm him, or if he can be slowed in any way. The tactics with the four hunters seems like something that can be expanded upon as well, using the different taunts available to tanks. True, those tanks can then not do any damage, but if it works, neither can the boss.
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Postby Lore » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:16 am

Majiben wrote:
Panzerdin wrote:It isn't tanking. It's pressing 3 bloody buttons.
What was paladin tanking in 2.4?

Easy.
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Postby Frickit » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:30 am

Panzerdin wrote:Frankly, you need new Priests. There is no way you're going to be able to carry these people through an entire expansion.


ya one more fail and kick-recruit your priests.
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Postby majiben » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:38 am

Martie wrote:I agree that having to have two priests with the proper gear (or spec) sucks for this fight, but I strongly disagree with the people saying that the fight sucks because people have to learn the fight
It isn't that someone has to learn the fight but that you can have 2-5 people already trained for the fight from 10 man who can't do the job in the 25 man. Additionally the job is somewhat counter the playstyle of priest class. They never tank and they don't have controlable pets.
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Postby Flex » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:44 am

Majiben wrote:They never tank and they don't have controlable pets.


But they do have a mind control ability that is great fun to use.
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Postby Lore » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:59 am

I was playing a Holy Priest when we were clearing Naxx the first time, at level 60. I was one of the Priests assigned to tanking duty.

First off, it's significantly less complicated now than it was then. You don't have to worry about keeping your mind controls timed perfectly and cycling through the right adds, there's no worry about positioning yourself or the adds in the right spot to avoid getting instagibbed by mana burns, and it's not a wipe if an MC happens to break early. Boss mods also work much better these days.

Really, nowadays it's just "Mind control whatever's handy, walk to the boss, bone shield, taunt, and press 4 a bunch." If your priests are competent healers, they should be able to do Razuvious no problem. It's only "tanking" in the sense that the mob is targetting the thing they're mind controlling; there's no rotation, positioning, or anything else to worry about.

Honestly, if your Priests can't handle Razuvious, they're going to be a complete liability on Malygos, so you might as well start recruiting.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:34 pm

All this harshing on priests overlooks the fact that this fight is built on a single ability of a single class, and you need two of them unless you want to employ funtime gimmicks.

Also, this single ability of this single class is buggy as fuck -- and has been since, well, forever.

I played a holy priest back in classic; I lead raids through Naxx. I had the Chromaggus belt and some crafted hit gear. So did another priest that I'm still raiding with, and he's still doing the MC.

And it still breaks on him, quite probably because of the change to racials (almost all of our priests are undead).

Our priests perform very well on Malygos, thank you. The problem isn't with their performance: it is with the buggy bullshit involved in the fight.

As Paladin tanks it's not like we're not used to working around stupid game mechanics to get things done. I'm perfectly willing to excuse the continued stupid mechanics in Naxx because, frankly, it's lightly re-worked Classic content.

They came up with a solution that actually worked for N10. Why they don't just keep the solution in N25, I don't understand, especially since they've shown that they're willing to adjust other things to fit today's raids (e.g., Gothik threat tables).

I'm surprised by the amount of scorn being piled on guilds and raids that are having issues with the Raz fight, and think that any guild that doesn't have a raiding roster of 40 people is destined for failure, or that anyone that doesn't play the game the way they think it should be played, or doesn't build a raid the way they think it should be built, needs to start gkicking and recruiting.

Frankly it makes me think of warriors telling paladins to stfu and go spec holy, because they'll never be able to tank RoS.

They were wrong then, and I think people clinging to the min/max mentality are wrong now.

That being said: if there was absolutely no way to do this fight that didn't involve two non-undead priests, then yes, it'd be an incredibly stupid fight that should be changed.

However, there are at least two alternate strategies that have been used:
1) 3 hunter kite
2) mage tank

Not a fan of the 3 hunter strat as it requires 3 hunters (we have, usually, two). We are going to try the mage tank strat because it's likely to get the mage killed, and we like killing him.
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Postby Belloc » Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:18 pm

If MC is breaking, put curse of elements on the adds.
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Postby Worldie » Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:45 pm

Slightly offtopic, but i've just read a amusing whine on wow boards about Maexxna being too hardcore cause it requires you to have a paladin, shaman or druid in the raid.


It's getting beyond sad to be honest.
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