The extreme lameness of the priest requirement in Naxx/25

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Postby Belarkan » Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:25 am

Majiben wrote:
Panzerdin wrote:It isn't tanking. It's pressing 3 bloody buttons.
What was paladin tanking in 2.4?


Managing mana, positionning so that consecration wouldn't break CC, taking care of the aggro, taunting back mobs wandering within the raid and a few more things.
It wasn't that hard but definitively more than pressing 2 buttons every 30 seconds and 1 on every cooldown + CM recast.
One of our shadow did it well on its very first raid with her toon. She was extremly reluctant to do it because she feared wipe fest but boss was killed on the very first attempt.
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Postby Worldie » Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:29 am

Or else just have a mage tank Razovius.
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Postby majiben » Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:00 am

Worldie wrote:Or else just have a mage tank Razovius.
How does that work?
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Postby Panzerdin » Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:28 am

He spellsteals the buff from the understudies.
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Postby Strendarr » Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:44 am

Majiben wrote:I really dislike that they have this requirement. There is no good explaination why they didn't use the same mechanics as in the 10 man.
You make a class where they is no tanking tree have to tank for the one encounter since level 60 naxx. Why? Because of flavor. Well that's all fine and dandy if you happen to be running with two shadowpriests in your raid who have tank alts for some reason.

How does this flavor taste to the guild that run with 1 or no priests? How does it taste to the holy priest who has never mced or tanked in their life. How about to the priest who has no hit gear and suffers constant mc breaks. How about the player who thinks that the stundent's bone shield works like the DK one and wipes their raid by hitting it early thinking they were doing a good thing? What about the guild running with 6 healers who are forced to 4 heal the fight because they have 2 priest healers. How does it taste to the hours spent learning how have the priest mc, work out a tank rotation and knowing where and when to break the mc when you have 2-4 tanks in your raid that already know how to do it. What about the repairs of the rest of the raid while your guild wipes because the priest have no idea what the hell is going on and why do they have to practice something they have never seen before or will need to do again?


thank you very much for summing up PERFECTLY the design flaws in this fight.

edit:

anyhow, in the meantime I continue to level a priest, who is now level 38 after 1 day of playtime. I still dislike playing a priest and I continue to hope that they change the mechanic of the fight, and in the meantime we're going to try both the mage and the hunter workarounds.

here's hoping...
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Postby Worldie » Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:14 am

Majiben wrote:
Worldie wrote:Or else just have a mage tank Razovius.
How does that work?

http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/12/21/25 ... o-priests/
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby sanctifico » Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:37 am

We tried a hunter kite tactic for our first week and a half (we managed to get priests @80 after that)

4hunters = Square ~ 34yards from the next hunter in sequence

so i.e. a big eggtimer shape.

Each hunter uses the taunt shot, just before Raz gets ~1/2 way to the next one.

Funny thing is that we got Raz to 60% on one of the tries, but then one of the hunters splatted.
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Postby Arcand » Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:37 am

Panzerdin wrote:You had to concentrate on more than one mob doing that. Some of them even moved around, or cast spells!

All they have to do is walk up to him and hit 3 buttons in sequence.


Sunder Armor, Shield Block, Revenge? ;)
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Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:31 am

Panzerdin wrote:All they have to do is walk up to him and hit 3 buttons in sequence.


They still have to know what the 3 buttons do and when to press them, and if they've not played a tank type character, it can be confusing and take a while to figure out. There is timing and positioning and coordination involved with the other MC. To say nothing of doing this while dealing with buggy MC. It's not exactly difficult, but it still requires some skill.

The SR bug appears to be:
It seems that any shadow resistance that is applied to the priests who are mind controlling the Understudies is also applied to the understudy itself and therefore modifies the time that mind control will take to break. This bug does not seem to be line-of-sight related.

Removing all shadow resistance buffs from the priests should prevent early mind control breaks. This solution also applies to early mind control breaks of Grand Widow's adds.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 9391&sid=1

No blue confirmation, so may not be the case.

I know last night we had a fucking headache doing this. Because all our fucking priests are undead, and MC was breaking all over the fucking place.

It may have been related to the moving-too-quickly after MC bug. Whatever the case, this fight is gimmicky and stupid.

One of my priests has done the MC since classic, so he knows what he's doing -- he usually leads off the MC, and it still broke early or randomly six times in a row.
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Postby Panzerdin » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:37 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:
Panzerdin wrote:All they have to do is walk up to him and hit 3 buttons in sequence.


They still have to know what the 3 buttons do and when to press them, and if they've not played a tank type character, it can be confusing and take a while to figure out. There is timing and positioning and coordination involved with the other MC. To say nothing of doing this while dealing with buggy MC. It's not exactly difficult, but it still requires some skill.

The SR bug appears to be:
It seems that any shadow resistance that is applied to the priests who are mind controlling the Understudies is also applied to the understudy itself and therefore modifies the time that mind control will take to break. This bug does not seem to be line-of-sight related.

Removing all shadow resistance buffs from the priests should prevent early mind control breaks. This solution also applies to early mind control breaks of Grand Widow's adds.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 9391&sid=1

No blue confirmation, so may not be the case.

I know last night we had a fucking headache doing this. Because all our fucking priests are undead, and MC was breaking all over the fucking place.

It may have been related to the moving-too-quickly after MC bug. Whatever the case, this fight is gimmicky and stupid.

One of my priests has done the MC since classic, so he knows what he's doing -- he usually leads off the MC, and it still broke early or randomly six times in a row.


I had never tanked before the first time I tried. I didn't fuck it up, and I was tanking more than 1 mob without the tools to do so (Druids without Swipe or Lacerate are terribad multi-mob tanks).
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Postby baleogthefierce » Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:57 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:
Panzerdin wrote:All they have to do is walk up to him and hit 3 buttons in sequence.


They still have to know what the 3 buttons do and when to press them, and if they've not played a tank type character, it can be confusing and take a while to figure out. There is timing and positioning and coordination involved with the other MC. To say nothing of doing this while dealing with buggy MC. It's not exactly difficult, but it still requires some skill.

The SR bug appears to be:
It seems that any shadow resistance that is applied to the priests who are mind controlling the Understudies is also applied to the understudy itself and therefore modifies the time that mind control will take to break. This bug does not seem to be line-of-sight related.

Removing all shadow resistance buffs from the priests should prevent early mind control breaks. This solution also applies to early mind control breaks of Grand Widow's adds.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 9391&sid=1

No blue confirmation, so may not be the case.

I know last night we had a fucking headache doing this. Because all our fucking priests are undead, and MC was breaking all over the fucking place.

It may have been related to the moving-too-quickly after MC bug. Whatever the case, this fight is gimmicky and stupid.

One of my priests has done the MC since classic, so he knows what he's doing -- he usually leads off the MC, and it still broke early or randomly six times in a row.


Haha I had forgotten that I posted this on the bug forums :D

But yeah we have had this confirmed by multiple guilds on our server. We've done testing where some of our priests had shadow resistance and some did not, and the ones with SR always found it impossible to MC the adds.
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Postby Morganim » Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:59 pm

How is it hard, i seriously dont understand it.

On 25 man, 1 person OT's 4 adds in a pile
2x Priests with some +hit gear on MC them out of the pack and have a whirl tanking with 3 buttons. When the 2nd tank taunts run into the pack 'tank im dropping star' tank shield slams star. priest MC's a new one.
Dont QQ at hit gear, theres some cheap rep shit that would take u 5 mins and 100-200 gold to get enough to not have constant breaks.
And if your priests are to bad to be able to work out on vent when one taunts etc then you have much much bigger issues.
We 3 healed this fight with serious ease, 1 on raid + dagger, 1 on adds, 1 on both.

Faerlina, just have a couple tanks taunt + shield wall through each enrage and get yourself an achievement if your priests really do suck that much.

Also get new priests its not hard
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Postby Threatco » Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:38 pm

When I and the OT learned this in 10 man I think the problem is the over explanation of how to switch.

(That and to remeber how to unsummon a minion when everyone else told me it was a buff like Divine Intervention)

We just taunted off anytime we could when cooldown was off (like 30 seconds?) and put our boneshield up before we did.

When we did this we said on vent incase the other had fallen asleep.

Then they would unsummon their minion, then instantly reclick orb to control him again and smack away until your taunt is ready.

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Postby Rokh » Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:11 pm

My guild has found the MC breaks less the shorter the range between the priest and the MC target.

We actualy all pile up on the boss, with everyone as close as possible.

This also makes picking up the adds after MC super simple, just keep concecrate running the entire fight and when the priests drop their pet you will pick it up instantly.
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Postby MrDuck » Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:39 am

Morganim wrote:How is it hard, i seriously dont understand it.

On 25 man, 1 person OT's 4 adds in a pile
2x Priests with some +hit gear on MC them out of the pack and have a whirl tanking with 3 buttons. When the 2nd tank taunts run into the pack 'tank im dropping star' tank shield slams star. priest MC's a new one.
Dont QQ at hit gear, theres some cheap rep shit that would take u 5 mins and 100-200 gold to get enough to not have constant breaks.
And if your priests are to bad to be able to work out on vent when one taunts etc then you have much much bigger issues.
We 3 healed this fight with serious ease, 1 on raid + dagger, 1 on adds, 1 on both.

Faerlina, just have a couple tanks taunt + shield wall through each enrage and get yourself an achievement if your priests really do suck that much.

Also get new priests its not hard
Yeah well, what if we just don't have these priests, and don't have spots for them? We do faerlina easily, healing through enrage is easymode, but razuvious just sucks. We have our setup running, and we might possibly get 2 priests into our next raid, but it means dropping someone from our core setup and shit...Isn't that lame?
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