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[25] 4H question - zerging Thane?

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, guillex

Postby Lousiana » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:39 am

Janduin wrote:
Worldie wrote:We use prot pala + prot war for the caster adds, and prot pala + DK for melee adds.

Actually going for DK + prot war for caster and 2x prot pala on melee when patch 3.0.4 hits. It's just easier to heal people with 30k+ HP than casters ;) and spellreflect = op.


What relevant things are changing in 3.0.4?


Single target taunt for Paladins introduced. My friend this will be like christmas and birthday the same day. :wink:
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Postby Morganim » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:00 am

Lousiana wrote:
Janduin wrote:
Worldie wrote:We use prot pala + prot war for the caster adds, and prot pala + DK for melee adds.

Actually going for DK + prot war for caster and 2x prot pala on melee when patch 3.0.4 hits. It's just easier to heal people with 30k+ HP than casters ;) and spellreflect = op.


What relevant things are changing in 3.0.4?


Single target taunt for Paladins introduced. My friend this will be like christmas and birthday the same day. :wink:


Except it was never a problem unless you brought 2 prot paladins to the 10 man version, and a moot point if you used the zerg thane method

The only other fight so far requiring more than 2 tanks is saph with drakes up and even then taunting off tanks doesnt come into play
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Postby Janduin » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:13 am

Yes, I forgot about the single target taunt, that will be very convenient. Do we know how much Stamina we are getting? I'm assuming it'll be some additional percent.
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Postby Vestori » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:41 am

I forget what a guildie said about the zerging thane method which we did, it's roughly 40k dps to do it before a 5th mark, 4th mark being a basic nuisance more than anything to be honest
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Postby Splug » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:43 am

We've managed to pound Thane into the ground before mark 5 with 1-2 second cast delays from latency; the night where things were actually running cleanly, I had Rivendare taunted off me before the third mark.

Healing through four marks is easy, five is doable, six would start getting people killed.

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Postby Targonis » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:49 am

We've done the zerg this way:

All DPS on Thane killing him at the 4 Mark stage, as the MT I tank Thane until death, I run over and Taunt Riven and bring him to where Thane was and begin stacking his marks while my OT stays out of range, once my marks reach 3 I have the OT run in and taunt him back to his corner. All of the DPS stays with me the entire time and wait for the marks to tick off, and I taunt him back to me and kill him, then move to #3 and #4 at the back. Works like a charm, everytime.
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Postby sanctifico » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:08 pm

ZEERRRG = win easy mode bubblewall 5th stack for transition.
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Postby Longadin » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:33 pm

Just did the zerging method last night - we kept having dc issues, but finally the fates collided on one attempt that no one dced - though some people died.

I was MTing thane and once he died the moment BL cooldown was over (leaving us with just 4 marks), i rushed over to baron to help heal.

Ideally you want another tank to swap with the tank tanking Baron on 3 stacks with another healer tagging along...

Once I had four stacks of Baron's mark, i went over to the other end of the room to relieve one of the healer tanks and proceeded to heal myself via sacred shield + FoL and some hots. Mana was never an issue since i was getting returns via external heals.

We killed them around mark 40ish with half the raid dead due to dc? but meh, once the zerg's done the hard fight's done honestly.
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Postby knaughty » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:05 pm

Morganim wrote:
Lousiana wrote:
Janduin wrote:What relevant things are changing in 3.0.4?


Single target taunt for Paladins introduced. My friend this will be like christmas and birthday the same day. :wink:


Except it was never a problem unless you brought 2 prot paladins to the 10 man version, and a moot point if you used the zerg thane method

I found myself wishing I had a single-target taunt at KT for Guardians of Icecrown.

Prot warrior got over-zealous and taunted the second one off me, then grabbed 3rd while I grabbed 4th.

Now I have one and he has three (and is getting bug-raped).

Was painful to fix.

RD - I have 4 - taunt 1 back - I have 3
Mocking, 2 each
Mocking fades, I have 3 again (SoV stack)
Wait for taunt CD
He taunts again, 2 each.

Meanwhile healers have go so damn distracted keeping us up with our stupid bug dance that the ice-tomb-thingy chaining through the melee killed them all. Thus, no interrupts. Thus: Tank dies to FrostBoltToFace.

Yes, it was a mistake that prompted the whole debacle (prot warrior picking up 3). But a single target taunt would have been a lifesaver.
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Postby Mex » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:08 pm

Judgement, ShoR, HotR seems to function like a single target taunt for me, assuming whoever the mob's attacking has only just grabbed it. If that doesn't work, there's still exorcism, avenger's shield, holy wrath left, and by then your judgement / ShoR / HotR cooldowns will be up again. If you haven't pulled agro back from a taunt by this point then something's wrong. None of the other tanks in my guild even come close to me in TPS, and barring multiple misses, a single rotation of abilities is all I need to get to 110%+.

This isn't something that'd be viable on 4h, for instance, but for bad taunts like on KT it works fine. On Gluth the other day I had a taunt resist, I popped wings and had him back on me before the 8 second cooldown was up.
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Postby knaughty » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:18 pm

The KT think was definitely double brain-fart:

• Warrior collects 3. Mistake 1
• Knaughty hits RD, rather than just peeling one via OP threat. Mistake 2

Hindsight is 20:20, as is calm consideration. This was "OhShitWTFuckIsHeTryingToDoTankAllFour?!?!?! ACK! Taunt
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Postby sanctifico » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:46 am

Zerge = easy, done on both 10 and 25man

10 - 2healers, 6dps, 2tanks (one hybryd)
25 - 6healers, 2warlocks, 2tanks, 15dps(well 14+ one dk who doesnt have dps gear but wasnt tanking)

4 stacks is easy, Rivindare is taunted off at about the 5th mark (bubble wall because I only have one healer)
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Postby Eroslight » Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:47 am

So,
If you don't want to do the zerging method (or just fail at it for some reason.) Doing controlled swaps is very doable, just be sure to start switching at mark 2 - you'll get your third during the transition. Focus frame the other tank. Talk over vent at 2 stacks the first time and when the other stack falls off the rest of the time.

Watch Thane's cast bar if you're tanking him. Only start the switch AFTER he casts meteor and try to do it fast enough so he won't instagib the tank.

However we had to add an important step due to meteor's instagibbing the tank during the transition - 50k (20k resist) to the face. It was to have Everybody stay on top with their tanks even during the switch. Sure it usually meant the DPS got a 3rd mark but that was easily healable.

Plus its pretty hilarious having ~7 people following you where ever you go.

Its fun to take them on little circles around your corner just because you can.

It was our first clean kill of the Thane and Rivendare and the only people that died were the rogue and kitty getting a omgwtfbqq holy chain lightning to the face on Zelik. I still say they didn't watch their stacks though - stupid melee. Just me though.
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Postby leira_ » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:03 am

Janduin wrote:What relevant things are changing in 3.0.4? Do we know how much additional stamina we are getting?


Worldie is talking about the single target taunt making the 2-tankadin-switching strategy easier.
The addiotional stamina is wellcome btw :)

( We are just zerging down the first horsemen btw, easier, faster :) )
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Postby leira_ » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:09 am

Knaughty wrote:I found myself wishing I had a single-target taunt at KT for Guardians of Icecrown.

in naxx-25 we just made a feral druid tank all the 4 :|
in naxx-10 i managed to tank both + KT

seems most people fears how much damage they _used_ to push, they don't do much damage actually (on a normal fight at least)
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