[10] Sartharion with 3 drakes

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Postby Splug » Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:32 pm

The chain doesn't last long, but you don't have to start it right as shadron lands. Until Shadron's Disciple spawns and Sartharion gets the +50% fire damage buff, there is no threat. You only have to last from when the disciple spawns until shadron himself dies (removing the +100% fire damage taken debuff), and if this span is longer than about a minute you're likely to be falling behind on the second whelp hatch anyway, creating other problems.

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Postby Wibu » Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:56 pm

Just had our first nights of attempts on the 10 man 3 drake.

First things first, we had a pretty poorly chosen set-up which we'll rectify next time.

2 problems: 1, we went caster heavy and ended up lacking the DPS to take Tenebron down in reasonable time. 2, I was the only OT and only person capable of picking up adds without getting gibbed.

I'm not sure how problem 1 could be solved without switching to a more melee focused set-up. Yes, we could be better positioned to minimise movement etc but it didn't seem to help much. We were left with Tenebron at 40ish % when Shadron was landing and always greeted with another wave of whelps.

Problem number 2 is going to be solved by bring an unholy DK along with us to pick up and handle the elementals and to pull whelps towards me tanking Tenebron. This should also give us a nice DPS boost with ebon plague in both single target and AoE departments if we stick with a caster melee heavy group. We lacked a lock or moonkin tonight which was clearly a problem.

Regardless, we ended up killing it leaving Tenebron and Vesperon alive with me being superman and attempting to pick everything up.
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Postby Morganim » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:17 am

We seem to be playing the game of 'if we get left walls we will win'

not sure if its our positioning or the fact where melee heavy not caster heavy but whenever we get a couple right walls we fail to make the second lot of whelps, whnever we get left walls we finally get to work on 2nd and 3rd drakes for a while
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Postby towelliee » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:06 am

So is the ideal comp for the 3 drakes up 3 tanks and 3 healers? We continue to bring 2 healers in attempt for more dps but I am under the impression 3 healers is definitely needed.
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Postby Morganim » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:08 am

towelliee wrote:So is the ideal comp for the 3 drakes up 3 tanks and 3 healers? We continue to bring 2 healers in attempt for more dps but I am under the impression 3 healers is definitely needed.


We where using 2 + 2 and found it just resulted in to many random deaths.

We are now working with 2 tanks 3 healers and 5 phyiscal dps (dk, enhance, rogue, fury, hunter). Found its much better except for right flame walls nuking our dps time.

Id love to try it with 5 range dps but we lack a geared elemental shaman so i doubt it would be feasible
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Postby Maswin » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:12 am

What sort of DPS is required for this? We've been trying it for the last few weeks with various setups, but our DPS just can't seem to get a drake down in time.

We've been trying with unholy DK on Sarth, but due to lack of DPS we switched it up and had Feral tank Sarth & me (prot pala) on Drakes/Whelps with the DK helping on DPS. We manage to get Tenebron to about 30-40% by the time Shadron lands (best we've managed is 9%, don't know how).

Our setup is:
Mage
SPriest
Boomkin
DK or Ret Pala
Warlock
Tree
Holy Priest
Ele Shaman (helping with off-healing)
Feral Tank
Prot Pala

We did have the Boomkin level his hunter and tried that, but the lack of utility the boomkin provided seemed too high a loss (plus he's not an experienced hunter).

Our DPS are not sure what they can do, we're certain it can't be gear as we all have solid gear & other guilds have done it already so it can't be that much of a gear check. The Warlock thinks he should be replaced for it so we can have DK + Retri.

The SP & Mage seem to average 3500 DPS, the rest 1800-2500 it seems to vary.

We gave up on 3 last night and killed Shadron to try again, and still Tenebron wasn't dying by the time Vesperon landed...which is even more confusing, but that could have been tiredness.

Any ideas or help on how we can nuke Teneb down?
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Postby Gorgonzola » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:55 pm

Eender wrote:Just woke up and will make a write up but atm here is a link to most of the video www.chameleonism.com/wow/sarth10.avi (person who was frapsing had fraps bug 2 times on our kill... it even stops all together after the 3rd drake is dead).


my guild just started work on this last night, DK on sarth, prot pally (me) on adds, warrior on drakes.

i'm intrigued you were able to tank the drakes and pick up all the adds. Your video is broken. Did you just run through the raid and pick the crap up and pray they didn't breath at the wrong time until you could point them away from the raid again?
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Postby Wibu » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:26 pm

Gorgonzola wrote:
Eender wrote:Just woke up and will make a write up but atm here is a link to most of the video www.chameleonism.com/wow/sarth10.avi (person who was frapsing had fraps bug 2 times on our kill... it even stops all together after the 3rd drake is dead).


my guild just started work on this last night, DK on sarth, prot pally (me) on adds, warrior on drakes.

i'm intrigued you were able to tank the drakes and pick up all the adds. Your video is broken. Did you just run through the raid and pick the crap up and pray they didn't breath at the wrong time until you could point them away from the raid again?

I'm guessing that quote is of splug. The answer is... he's playing his DK atm and has that haxor ranged AoE.
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Postby Gorgonzola » Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:52 pm

I was actually quoting Eender, the paladin with the magic markers in his siggy.
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Postby Morganim » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:48 am

I tank the drakes + whelps at the same time, although i have a DK who helps out collecting the drakes, it is do-able 100% by yourself but its not easy
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Postby Splug » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:52 am

Wibu wrote:
Gorgonzola wrote:
Eender wrote:Just woke up and will make a write up but atm here is a link to most of the video www.chameleonism.com/wow/sarth10.avi (person who was frapsing had fraps bug 2 times on our kill... it even stops all together after the 3rd drake is dead).


my guild just started work on this last night, DK on sarth, prot pally (me) on adds, warrior on drakes.

i'm intrigued you were able to tank the drakes and pick up all the adds. Your video is broken. Did you just run through the raid and pick the crap up and pray they didn't breath at the wrong time until you could point them away from the raid again?

I'm guessing that quote is of splug. The answer is... he's playing his DK atm and has that haxor ranged AoE.
Eender posted a video as well, so that quote is annotated correctly. However, your analysis of how I handled not bombing the raid is also correct. ;) I think the video I linked should still work, but it won't answer your question for the reason stated.
Maswin wrote:We gave up on 3 last night and killed Shadron to try again, and still Tenebron wasn't dying by the time Vesperon landed...which is even more confusing, but that could have been tiredness.

Any ideas or help on how we can nuke Teneb down?
You do not need to kill one drake before the next one lands, and in fact, it is likely you will not be able to do so twice either way (blowing one of them up using bloodlust before the next one lands may be viable). If there is any overlap time between Shadron landing and Tenebron dieing, be ready to blow divine protection / shield wall / iceboune fortitude / barkskin. The drake's melee isn't that bad, but having the +100% shadow damage debuff up with two things firing breath attacks can potentially one-shot a tank. There is a damage requirement, in that you almost need to be able to kill Tenebron before the second whelp hatch. It's just too many little things on one tank, and between mobs spreading out and starting to creep behind you and just the sheer damage of having that many things attacking with a full stack of fade armor, you're very likely to lose the offtank.

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Postby Ashmadai » Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:23 pm

So as Shadron and then Vesperon die, their portals still stay open? That is to say, you still have to send the 2nd OT or whatever and the DPS down into the portal to kill the disciples?

My guild runs 10 mans, and we've cleared everything including Malygos, but in 3 weeks of trying, granted only about 3 hours of tries each week, we have not been able to get him down with even 1 drake, so 3 is going to take a while I'm sure, but I'm trying to figure out anything I possibly can to make it easier.
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Postby Splug » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:54 am

Vesperon and Shadron will spawn only one disciple at a time. They will continue to produce spawning messages according to their cooldown as long as they live, but nothing actually happens if they already have a disciple up when the summon notice occurs (thus, if you have the disciple at 10%, then a new one "spawns," and then you kill the disciple, you've effectively given a full cooldown without having to deal with the new disciple). Killing the drake does not despawn the disciples - you still have to go through the portal and kill them, but they'll stop coming back once the drake is dead.

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Postby Ashmadai » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:55 pm

So just to see if I'm understanding this right, when you do this with 3 drakes you basically tank Sarth and Tenebron until Tenebron is dead, then you AoE down the whelps. Then you tank Shadron until dead and then send an OTish guy and the DPS down to kill the disciple, then tank Vesperon until dead and then go into the portal and kill the disciple, then finish Sarth?

That is to say, everybody stays topside until the drake dies then goes into the portal to kill the disciple on Shad and Vesp?

I am just trying to get a feel for how this gets done. And throughout the fight, do you use one dedicated AoE DPS to kill the fire elementals?

Also, would this be a setup that could work?

Prot Paladin
DK tank
DK OT(for fire elemental, whelp, and disciple tanking)

4 dedicated DPS

3 healers

It seems like it wouldn't be enough DPS to get the drakes down fast enough doing it this way and they would overlap and cause major issues. I suppose it depends on how much DPS they're pushing out though.
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Postby Splug » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:00 pm

Ashmadai wrote:That is to say, everybody stays topside until the drake dies then goes into the portal to kill the disciple on Shad and Vesp?
Yes, that's how we did it. The video I linked earlier might give a clearer view of the timing involved; while you can stream it and view it in browser, I do recommend downloading the high resolution version if you're looking for strategic analysis.
Ashmadai wrote:I am just trying to get a feel for how this gets done. And throughout the fight, do you use one dedicated AoE DPS to kill the fire elementals?
Not really. Residual damage from pestilence, death and decay, and the warrior's whirlwinds tends to cut the elementals down at a reasonable speed. I think in the end we also decided to have our mage keep living bomb up on the drake because it was better for his single target damage, similar to whirlwind. We do have the shadow priest and warlock fire off seeds and mind sear after Tenebron dies to clean out the whelps, but otherwise there's no dedicated AE.
Ashmadai wrote:Also, would this be a setup that could work?

Prot Paladin
DK tank
DK OT(for fire elemental, whelp, and disciple tanking)

4 dedicated DPS

3 healers

It seems like it wouldn't be enough DPS to get the drakes down fast enough doing it this way and they would overlap and cause major issues. I suppose it depends on how much DPS they're pushing out though.
You do not need to kill each drake before the next lands, though it's nice if you can. I do think you'll be lacking for damage to kill Tenebron before the second whelp pack with 4 dps classes, so I would recommend using either 2 tanks, 3 healers or 3 tanks, 2 healers. We went with the former, and had one of the healers be a holydin with RF to fill in a half-way role on stalling elementals and protecting the priest/druid somewhat.

-Splug
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