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[10] Sartharion with 3 drakes

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Postby Gaffer » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:36 am

Morganim wrote:The times when the MT becomes '1 shottable' by the breath, is it a buff on sarth or is a debuff on the mt that gives all the extra damage, trying to work out when we need to use the damage reduction effects as all our DK's are dps with only blue tanking gear :(


This becomes a possibility after Vesperon enter's the battle and summons his acolyte. The acolyte will place a debuff on random players called "Twilight Torment." This debuff will also increase fire damage taken by 75% (not noted on the tooltip) as long as Shadron is still up. If the tank gets this debuff and then Sartharion begins to cast a breath, you need to counter with a cooldown. Bear Shield Wall + Last Stand + Nightmare seed should be able to you through one. You also have Guardian Spirit and Bubble + Hand of Sacrifice. Figure out how you want to use these cooldowns.

Second, how are you guys picking up all the fire elementals im finding sometimes taunt + frisbee are on CD and i have nothing to grab them off healers beside the DK death gripping them into consecrate. The whelps seem to move in fine with judgment of light.


As I mentioned earlier, I was unable to pick up the adds solo and we opted for 3-tanking instead. I imagine that 2 tanking requires a lot of movement and at least 1 plated melee class to assist a little with pickups. It's just a matter of finding a way to make it work with what you have access to.

Also on a lot of the videos the adds seem to be low at all times, where as we are getting over run until tenebron dies and we go for the all out aoe, would it be the case that i should get in a fury warrior or ret paladin for the constant aoe?


I noticed this too. There were a lot more adds still floating around not getting slowly taken down in our first kill. Whoever was tanking adds would call for an AoE when the adds started to become overwhelming. Everyone would swap, kill all spawns, and then come back to the drakes. We did this right after Tenebron died and again right after Shadron died.
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Postby Splug » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:24 pm

The fire elementals don't have a lot of health. Just splashing pestilence, blight, and DnD, my residual damage ticks down the elementals about 1.5 spawns later, and there's rarely more than 4 active. While we have a fury warrior on the drakes, the additional damage from random whirlwinds will kill fire elementals before the next barrage of them spawn.

Whelps have more health and require at least one person to do some dedicated AE damage to them - a shadow priest or warlock can take them down over 10-15 seconds.

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Postby Io.Draco » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:43 pm

To be fair it ain't a big problem for a tank to have a big aamount of adds on himself

Anyway almost killed him

Our setup is :

2 Druid Tanks , 1 balance druid , 1 holy priest , 1 resto shaman , 1 elemental shaman , 1 mage , 1 hunter , 1 holy pala , 1 prot pala ( me )

Our strategy is :

Our best geared druid grabs Sartharion and takes him to the lower left corner , get him to 90% before tenebron comes , the other druid tank waits for tenebron in upper side and drags her to the middle , facing her to the left side , I take care of elementals and whlpes , my job ain't to realy kill him , but get em all and not get elementals enraged

Bloodlust goes up as soon as Tenebron lands , fully nuke her ass to the stone age , by the time shadron lands we usualy have her by 20-40%

Once shadron lands the hunter MDs the druid and hits him , tenebron dies soon after but not before she does another wave of adds , we aoe all the adds on me then go shadron

From now it gets easier but then our lovely Sartharion crits the druid tank with breath, basicly one shotting him with barsking , WTF?

We had one try where shadron died but sartharion one shotted the tank just 3 seconds before shadron died , fucking son of a bitch

If ya kill tenebron and shadron its win .... , wtb luck :S

Anyway its hard fight in my opinion but I wouldn't call it as hard as m'uru

I think Sartharion 25 is as hard as felmyst realy and sartharion 10 man as hard as twins ( pre nerf ) , only reason for this is the breath criting , if not for that I would call Sartharion 25 as hard as kalecgos and 10 man as hard as felmyst so...

This becomes a possibility after Vesperon enter's the battle and summons his acolyte. The acolyte will place a debuff on random players called "Twilight Torment." This debuff will also increase fire damage taken by 75% (not noted on the tooltip) as long as Shadron is still up. If the tank gets this debuff and then Sartharion begins to cast a breath, you need to counter with a cooldown. Bear Shield Wall + Last Stand + Nightmare seed should be able to you through one. You also have Guardian Spirit and Bubble + Hand of Sacrifice. Figure out how you want to use these cooldowns.


Nvm what I said earlier..

Thx for this post though was scratching my head after tonights raid of how he could 1 shot our druid
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Postby Morganim » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:42 pm

Thanks for the help,
1 other thing though, do you guys have tenebron do stupid runs through the raid group randomly, and have to just stop and pray he doesnt breath.

We've tried different tanking spots, raid closer, raid further away and nothing seems to help stop it
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Postby Nness » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:44 pm

Morganim wrote:Thanks for the help,
1 other thing though, do you guys have tenebron do stupid runs through the raid group randomly, and have to just stop and pray he doesnt breath.

We've tried different tanking spots, raid closer, raid further away and nothing seems to help stop it


Yes. Tenebron does some weird move. Especially after twilight portal open. What I did when I tank him is use Righteous defense right after he move away from me. Even though he didn't look at anyone. But somehow it worked. Or maybe I feel it works. At least he didn't run really far from me. It's just 1 or 2 second. Need more confirms from other people though.

Edit:
Did it again last night. Tenebron's weird move can not be avoid. Just need smart dpser to move to safe spot while he doing this.
Last edited by Nness on Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jensaarai » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:00 pm

Morganim wrote:Couple things im curious about that i dont fully understand.
The times when the MT becomes '1 shottable' by the breath, is it a buff on sarth or is a debuff on the mt that gives all the extra damage, trying to work out when we need to use the damage reduction effects as all our DK's are dps with only blue tanking gear :(


This happens when Shadron spawns an acolyte in the portal. What my guild did was DPS Shadron, skipping the acolyte for the time, and using a barksin/last stand/guardian spirit/hand of sacrifice rotation to keep the Sartharion tank up.

Second, how are you guys picking up all the fire elementals im finding sometimes taunt + frisbee are on CD and i have nothing to grab them off healers beside the DK death gripping them into consecrate. The whelps seem to move in fine with judgment of light.


Fire elementals I taunt if I can, AS, and if those are on CD, I just move and hit 'em with ShoR/HotR.

Also on a lot of the videos the adds seem to be low at all times, where as we are getting over run until tenebron dies and we go for the all out aoe, would it be the case that i should get in a fury warrior or ret paladin for the constant aoe?


My guild tried it both ways. Honestly I think both could work but, we killed it with me standing in Whirlwind/Divine Storm/etc with a melee group (and a hunter volleying I believe).



This (and the 25man) are some of the best fights in the game imo. So. much. fun.
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Postby Jensaarai » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:01 pm

Morganim wrote:Thanks for the help,
1 other thing though, do you guys have tenebron do stupid runs through the raid group randomly, and have to just stop and pray he doesnt breath.

We've tried different tanking spots, raid closer, raid further away and nothing seems to help stop it


This is Tenebron moving to the eggs in the twilight and hatching them.
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Postby Valsh » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:40 am

The times when the MT becomes '1 shottable' by the breath, is it a buff on sarth or is a debuff on the mt that gives all the extra damage, trying to work out when we need to use the damage reduction effects as all our DK's are dps with only blue tanking gear


It's worth noting that it's not just Twilight Torment that increases fire damage momentarily, Gift of the twilight(The damage reduction buff) from Shadrons acolyte will increase Sarths fire damage by 50% until the acolyte is dead, this can lead to some pretty high breaths too.
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Postby Splug » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:04 am

We ended up finishing this with a three healer / five damage / two tank setup. In this configuration, we found it easiest to kill whatever a drake had spawned after that drake was dead - healing through the random raid damage from Twilight Torment wasn't as bad as extending the fight while people killed the disciple, especially given the twilight shift deals damage anyway. The cooldown rotation on our Sartharian tank started when Shadron's Disciple spawned, and ended when we ran out of cooldowns (shortly before Shadron's Disciple died, but after Shadron himself was down). Using this order, there is a chance of a very large flame breath to the Sartharian tank while fighting Vesperon, but as Shadron's aura is gone by that point it's within survivable range.

-Splug
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Postby Chunes » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:12 am

any chance we could get a TL;DR version of your groups strategy Splug?

I'd love to know you guys' strat and the general pace of the fight as we are looking to start stepping up on this fight.

<3
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Postby Splug » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:30 am

Our holy paladin said he fraps'd the whole thing, but it was getting late when we finished so he hasn't editted or posted the video yet (EDIT: Video available here). Eendar linked one earlier in the thread from TI's kill run, though he had mentioned something about fraps dieing on the guy recording it.

The short version was that we had a feral druid tank Sartharian, I picked up everything else outside of the twilight shift on my deathknight. Disciples were tanked by our fury warrior. Our kill order was Tenebron -> AE on whelps -> Shadron -> Disciple of Shadron -> Vesperon -> Disciple of Vesperon -> Sartharian. We only had one shaman last night, and on the kill run we actually had 5 minutes remaining on the bloodlust cooldown when we pulled, so it didn't get used until Sartharian himself. We got a bit lucky on Tenebron waiting a couple seconds to start casting the second hatch. Other side notes that helped were getting a hand of salvation thrown at our fury warrior halfway through Tenebron, running with a holydin fallback tank (RF + healing to help attract elementals) and having the feral druid call out which direction the raid had to move for walls.

Chunes wrote:any chance we could get a TL;DR version of your groups strategy Splug?
That's about as concise as I can be - there were a lot of nuances that everyone had to learn, and in most cases it was a matter of everyone finding their own way to react to each situation. A lot of the learning curve for me to tank the zerg was planning out my ability rotation in advance, and getting a feel for how long before a drake is targettable after it lands, how long after the portal spawns before the whelps hatch, and always having my 10 second rune rotation figured out according to what new players would be joining the fight in that timeframe. Unfortunately I'm not sure how much of that knowledge is applicable here. ;)

EDIT: Oh yeah... there's also this little 5-15 second window where I was tanking Tenebron and Shadron at the same time, with the Tenebron shadow damage debuff, a few stacks of fade armor, and half a dozen whelps thrown in. For good measure, it's also usually right during a lava wall, meaning the healers may have to close up shop while running like hell. The potential to randomly explode within a .5 second or shorter interval during that window is very high. Any time I was late on Icebound Fortitude, I was dead and there wasn't a damn thing the rest of the raid could have done about it.

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Postby Splug » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:52 am

Video's up, previous post editted to include the link.

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Postby Eroslight » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:23 am

Thanks for the vid Splug - helps alot with quite a few things.

Few quick questions,
Did a healer go down into the portal room or did they all 3 stay up and your enh shaman help heal whilst in the portal room?

During the shadron CD rotation - did you have a few seconds in between or did you start one the second the previous went down?

I'm sure i'll have more later but let me go try a few new things and get back to you. We're still working on 1 drake right now tbh - I just don't think people understand that this fight is actually hard again. You'd think people who killed KJ would understand hard fights... but alas leveling and the LOL status of Naxx seems to have rotted their brains.

Time to whip them back into shape.
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Postby Splug » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:30 am

Eroslight wrote:Did a healer go down into the portal room or did they all 3 stay up and your enh shaman help heal whilst in the portal room?
I remember us having a long argument about whether or not to send Delurs (restoration druid) down with the team in there or not. I think we finally settled on having him go down there after HoT'ing the crap out of both tanks topside. I know when they first go down there, Imaril (enhancement shaman) is using Maelstrom weapon charges to belt out chain heal while Basan (shadow priest) keeps a shield on Nomepunter (fury warrior). EDIT: Just watched it again - all three healers stay topside. We changed our minds on sending Delurs down to heal after we had a wipe that would have been preventable with one more healer up top, and stuck to that.

Eroslight wrote:During the shadron CD rotation - did you have a few seconds in between or did you start one the second the previous went down?
We had each healer focus sartharian, and when the previous cooldown dropped Moothora (feral druid) called the next healer in the rotation to watch for the cast. As soon as flame breath started, they threw the next buff. (I think we used GS a bit early, to actually take advantage of the healing bonus rather than just burning it instantly).

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Postby Eroslight » Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:19 pm

God - WTB a enh shaman I could see them excelling at portal healing, I'll have to see how well my ret pally can pull it off. You'd think with 40+ active raiders you'd have an arms warrior or enh shaman But NOOO..

I'll have to see how long your CD chain lasted and see how long we can keep it up. It seems to me that with 3 CD's on a 3 in timer and 1 on a 2 min timer that the CD rotation would only last for ~1 min. You'd be hard pressed kill shadron in that time limit - well we would be. Hmmm...

P.S. I totally click and drag trying to see other things while watching wow videos and get mad when the POV doesn't move.
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