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[10] Sartharion with 3 drakes

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Postby Destinox » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:31 pm

I've been giving this a lot of tries with my guild on 10man, with 3 drakes up.

After a bunch of learning wipes we were able to nuke down the first drake before the second portal and finish off the portal/flame adds.

After this it becomes very hard, the MT starts taking 40k+ flame breaths that need to be dealt with, be it with stuff like Pain Suppression or DK anti-magic whatever.

At the same time, another tank is tanking the other 2 dragons, and we had a third tank on adds.

We encountered the follow problems:
- The MT on sartharion becomes INSANELY hard to heal

- Taking portals to kill Vesperons add (shadow thorns aura on all mobs) makes you lose dps on the second dragon, not taking it makes your entire raid take huge damage

- There seems to be a LOT of randomness in this encounter, mainly in lava wave and egg hatching timers. Also, the drakes like to randomly fly off and shadow breath your entire raid (which does about 15k damage)
It's survivable, but only if everyone is topped off, which is usually not the case.

Yes, I like the challenge, but tbh it shouldn't be this hard, since doing this with 25 is a pushover.
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Postby mavfin » Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:40 pm

I find all this interesting after all the "10-man couldn't possibly be as hard as 25" pre-launch. Sounds like a fun fight with the drakes up. Something to chew on for a while...
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Postby Eender » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:59 am

Downed this tonight. All I can say to the rest of you is it will take a LOT of runs and is pretty difficult for us to tank drakes. Thing is, DKs make the best Sarth tank and that is just the facts. The way we did it is we had 2 tanks 2 healers 6 DPS. Drake tank is responsible for everything but Sarth. You kill each drake (meaning kill all 3 drakes) while killing what you deem necessary in the portal. Once all 3 drakes are dead then you kill Sarth. I'm tired and my brain is fried at the moment so forgive me if i am rambling or not making any sense. I dunno if any other prot paladins have been involved on this kill yet or not but I think we were US horde 1st and world 6th. Any questions on specifics (I don't want to ruin this for anyone that doesn't want the strats ahead of time) just pm me on my guilds website www.teamice.org. GL and have fun with one of the most enjoyable and challenging fights I have had the privilege of tanking.
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Postby amh » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:06 am

Nice going :o

Had a quick look at your website, any chance you guys caught a video of this? And don´t be afraid to spoil it, that´s what this thread is all about :D

If you got any specific tips, please post them and I´ll just weave it into the original post. Bring out those awesome MS Paint-skills and conjure up a rough sketch, perhaps? IMHO this is the single most awesome achievement in the game so far, so big grats.
I used to play a paladin.
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Postby Cakes » Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:29 am

I am kind of interested in your group composition, Eender. I think we have positioning down really well, barring me not eating flame waves, but we're looking for ideas on how to tank the acolytes for a long enough time to not get rofled. I think we're also going to have to drop a healer, 3 is probably one too many.
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Postby Lowgrus » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:54 am

Ossuary wrote:You do indeed have to kill them during the fight however this isn't as simple as it seems as with the drakes up the entire raid gets debuffed.

In 25man at least, with three drakes up you will have: +100% fire dmg TAKEN, +100% shadow dmg TAKEN and -25% of YOUR max health.

Drakes come down on a timer so you must have the dps to kill a drake in a short time, having more than 2 drakes up will mean disaster.


which drakes do which one of the debuffs.

so i know what to expect from 1/2 /3 drakes up
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Postby Joanadark » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:56 am

Tenebron +100% Shadow
Shadron +100% Fire
Vesperon -25% Max HP
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Postby Lanicus » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:44 am

I didn't even know this raid existed until last night - we 1 shotted the 10 man with maybe 2 deaths. This was by FAR, easier than Naxx. We killed the 3 miniboss drakes and then took on the main boss. It was a joke for the most part. 2 paladin tanks and 2 paladin healers/1 druid healer.

EDIT:

I guess the next step is taking on the boss with the drakes up?
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Postby Eender » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:52 am

Just woke up and will make a write up but atm here is a link to most of the video www.chameleonism.com/wow/sarth10.avi (person who was frapsing had fraps bug 2 times on our kill... it even stops all together after the 3rd drake is dead).

Our group makup was:

Unholy DK (MT)
Prot Paladin (OT)
Holy Paladin
Resto Druid
Fury Warrior
Beast Hunter
Ele Shaman
Frostfire Mage
Affliction Loc
Shadow Priest
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Postby Soulcatcher » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:10 pm

Something im very interested in is, how are you dealing with the increasing damage from sartharions breath?

We are working on 3 drakes 25 man, and the problem we find is that as you kill drakes, and the fight progresses the ammount of damage done by sartharions breath becomes very hard to deal with, we had one breath exceed 42K last night.

Thanks for taking the time to talk about what you have learned
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Postby Eender » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:26 pm

This thread is about 10 man version. This one is even harder to deal with because the lack of support from the 15 other people.

We used a DK tank to tank him and this does tons (DKs have many abilities that can drastically reduce the damage of breaths (Bone Armor (40% reduction), Icebound Fortitude (50% Reduction), Anti-Magic Shell (100% Reduction), Anti-Magic Shield (15-20k absorption)) all on 60 second cooldown (with exception of anti-magic shield). Other options is have your holy paladin spec into Divine Guardian, Disc Priest with pain suppression, Blessing of Sacrifice on the tank, etc. The hard part (most magic damage) is where first drake is dead and second and third drake are still up together. Ways to combat this is tank selection (like I said Unholy DKs = king here) with ways to mitigate the damage or an ungodly HP pool to compensate for it.
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Postby Rorshach » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:48 pm

We tried 10-man with Vesperon only up, just one dragon. After two hours we downed him. Progressively I would think trying 1, then 2 then 3 drakes up makes sense but we are training everyone in our three 10-man groups to do 1 drake, then going for all 3 at once.

Because we were only doing one drake we did things differently than we would for 3. I tanked both Sartharion and Vesperon while the Bear tanked all the elementals and went through the portal.

We only have one geared DK tank right now and he's not in my 10-man group so unfortunately I'll have to make do with a bear and me. I'll update you on how a non-DK tanked group manages when we try it next time.

With 3 drakes up I am sure we'll move to the druid tanking Sarth and me tanking the adds because Paww's HP without CDs is around 43k.
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Postby Gaffer » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:00 am

We to give this a shot tonight and ended up beating our heads into the wall most the time. We generally go into encounters tank / healer heavy so we can get an idea of what we're dealing with and went pulled with 3 tanks, 3 healers for awhile. Obviously, we're a bit short on dps here, but the issues we ran into weren't from lack of DPS.

We ran a druid tanking Sartharion, I tanked Drakes and a DK tanked adds. Obviously, we're not hitting the soft DPS check of killing Tenebron before the second portal is spawned, but that wasn't what was wiping us (and we were actually able to survive through that multiple times).

Around the time we killed Tenebron, the tank would be one shot by the breath. There was a lot going on around that time so it's hard to tell what causes the increased breath but they were landing for 35-40k. Around this time, we were also dealing with both the remaining drakes having their Acolytes up and everyone but two tanks and two healers entering the Twilight.

Did you see breaths landing that hard pre-resist? I would guess you used the DK tank to specifically mitigate this and that's what we plan to try next time we pull, but I do know that Method was able to kill this with a druid tank wearing around the same HP as ours was. Any thoughts how they were able to deal with the breath?

After we wiped for about 3 hours, we decided ti kill Shadron and make a pull. It was a pretty significant difference and we ended up one pulling :\
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Postby Eender » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:16 am

Ok. So, the problem you are having is easily combatable (sorta). Vesperon disciples (which spawn down below) when up apply a buff randomly to the raid which increases damage taken by fire damage by 75%. You have one of two options here. Every time you see the emote that the Vesperon Disciple has spawned down below, dps peels off the drake and jumps down to kill it while the tank/healers will pop a cooldown any time the tank has the debuff. Or, you can do what we did which was, use a DK tank and have a CD available for every breath that is happening untill Shadron is dead and DPS can go down and destroy Vesperon Disciples every time they spawn from that time forward.
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Postby Gaffer » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:14 pm

Wow, thanks a lot Eender. After you pointed this out, we managed to find a buff that Sartharion gains just before the increased breath lands. The buff, Gift of the Twilight (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=58766) (not sure if this is the correct one of the two WoW Head lists) was overlooked by us since the tooltip reads shadow damage. Someone notes that the tooltip is a typo. Now that we have an indicator to when it's going to happen, I think we have a better shot with dealing with it.

Thanks again!
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