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[10] Sartharion with 3 drakes

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Postby Belloc » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:40 am

daemonym wrote:i'm fairly sure that the answer is no, but i wanted to ask anyways. would it be possible using a 3 tank 2 heal 5 dps set up using 90% gear from 10 man raids and emblems only, assuming we're all wearing best available? currently our best dps is an arcane mage at 2800 with a few more upgrades, they will easily break 3k so this leads me to believe that it -might- be with a drop of luck.

eventual comp will be:
prot warrior
prot warrior
prot pally

coh priest
resto druid

arcane/frost mage
ele shaman
hemo rogue
MM hunter
ret pally

I fully believe that it is possible... it's just going to be insanely difficult. 10-man gear will likely not allow for the typical strategy (burn tenebron and shadron down as fast as possible), so you'd probably have to use a strategy that involves killing acolytes at key moments, preventing insta-death breaths.

I can't offer any suggestions, but if you guys are skilled enough, go for it.
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Postby daemonym » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:04 pm

Belloc wrote:10-man gear will likely not allow for the typical strategy (burn tenebron and shadron down as fast as possible)


ya my best guess is that our best possible raid dps will be around 16.1k after full buffs including tank dps. that translates into 75 seconds per drake with zero interruptions (lawl). will likely need a hero of the day for whelp tanking as we'd get 2 waves, maybe even 3 heh.
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Postby knaughty » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:14 pm

S3D-10 got harder in 3.0.9.

I doubt it is possible in 10-man gear - you need more like 4k DPS per toon, not 3k. Sarth tank health/avoidance will also be an issue.

The problem with getting more whelps is:

(1) that you'll just end up behind, with low DPS, and the drakes take too long to die.

(2) Sarth tank runs our of CDs and dies.
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Postby Belloc » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:05 pm

Knaughty wrote:(2) Sarth tank runs our of CDs and dies.

I don't think a strategy requiring cooldowns would work in the first place. Portal hopping would be required.
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Postby knaughty » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:14 am

Belloc wrote:
Knaughty wrote:(2) Sarth tank runs our of CDs and dies.

I don't think a strategy requiring cooldowns would work in the first place. Portal hopping would be required.


I'm not following your point?

The "blow CDs to live through Breath of Doom" strategy works, that's how we've done both 10 & 25 man versions.
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Postby Kezia » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:57 pm

Belloc wrote:
Knaughty wrote:(2) Sarth tank runs our of CDs and dies.

I don't think a strategy requiring cooldowns would work in the first place. Portal hopping would be required.


Even if you take the portals you'll still end up having the Sarth tank take breaths. We've found that ignoring portals until the drakes are dead AND a solid CD rotation works best. It does become a dps race though; the drakes have to be dead by the time there's no more CDs left for the Sarth tank.
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Postby knaughty » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:15 pm

Kezia wrote:
Belloc wrote:
Knaughty wrote:(2) Sarth tank runs our of CDs and dies.

I don't think a strategy requiring cooldowns would work in the first place. Portal hopping would be required.


Even if you take the portals you'll still end up having the Sarth tank take breaths. We've found that ignoring portals until the drakes are dead AND a solid CD rotation works best. It does become a dps race though; the drakes have to be dead by the time there's no more CDs left for the Sarth tank.


Ah, I follow now, use the "kill disciples as they spawn" strat.

Never worked for us, Sarth tank takes BoDs anyway, as you can't kill the disciples instantly.
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Postby Kezia » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:04 pm

Knaughty wrote:
Ah, I follow now, use the "kill disciples as they spawn" strat.

Never worked for us, Sarth tank takes BoDs anyway, as you can't kill the disciples instantly.


The only portal we take is the one immediately after all 3 drakes are dead. We rely on CDs on the Sarth tank to keep up otherwise; taking more than that final portal is a waste of dps imo.
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Postby knaughty » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:11 pm

Kezia wrote:The only portal we take is the one immediately after all 3 drakes are dead. We rely on CDs on the Sarth tank to keep up otherwise; taking more than that final portal is a waste of dps imo.

You can take the one after second drake is dead, kill both disciples, and then start work on 3rd drake.

Requires fewer CDs and removes the high pressure mode sooner.

You may have to kill an extra disciple after the 3rd drake is dead, but "wasting" DPS after 3rd drake is dead is a complete non-issue.

We've done the final phase with only about 10 people alive in 25-man (awesomely bad fire-wall after killing disciple after 3rd drake was dead killed about a dozen people).
Last edited by knaughty on Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Worldie » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:12 pm

Knaughty wrote:
Kezia wrote:The only portal we take is the one immediately after all 3 drakes are dead. We rely on CDs on the Sarth tank to keep up otherwise; taking more than that final portal is a waste of dps imo.

You can take the one after second drake is dead, kill both disciples, and then start work on 3rd drake.

Requires fewer CDs and removes the high pressure mode sooner.


That's what we do. Removing TT makes killing the third drake much much easier.
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Postby amh » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:39 am

Same here.
I used to play a paladin.
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Postby Grizwold » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:42 am

Worldie wrote:That's what we do. Removing TT makes killing the third drake much much easier.


We tried that but we found that more could go wrong at that point, i.e. a massive amount of lava blazes spawning at that point (which didnt make sense), or coming out in a void zone ('fixed' now i think) for example. We found just having our 3rd psuedo healer (ele shammy) jsut chainhealing through the TT still was the easiest.
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Postby Seloei » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:45 am

For those who mentioned the Voidwalker strat, it is way too random to be used. Yes, he takes about 10% of the breaths as a normal tank would take but he gets repositioned everytime a flamewave hits him and if he is moved badly sarth might turn and breathe the raid. We tried it for 2-3 nights with having him in full stam gear, got the pet to around 80k health and about 3/5 pulls went bad as soon as a flamewave hit him, the only times it worked was when he didn't get hit, at all. (2 tanks, 2 healer, 6 dps with 1 stam puffed lock)
It is too random to consider, altho if you have no other choice as a tank who can survive the breaths...

Also, twilight torment is a drake tank killer because of the big shadowbreaths, if you have 2 drakes up and there is a firewall at the same time as the drake tank has to move, he can quite easily get almost oneshoted. dual breaths (min damage) with torment on him will hit for 21k. with the aura up he would only have about 25-30k health, depending on how many buffs you have to play around with. Followed by 3-5k melee swings can mean a near one shot.

We found it best to handle it with shadow prot pots for the dps who are about to die from torment and have our shadowpriest or eleme shaman heal through torment phase, dps while noone needs heals and the 2. healer focuses ONLY on the drake tank.

edit: we havent killed him yet, but we have gotten 2 drakes down on the last try and only struggling with "bad voidzone+braeth combos"
Last edited by Seloei on Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Belloc » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:48 am

Knaughty wrote:
Belloc wrote:
Knaughty wrote:(2) Sarth tank runs our of CDs and dies.

I don't think a strategy requiring cooldowns would work in the first place. Portal hopping would be required.


I'm not following your point?

The "blow CDs to live through Breath of Doom" strategy works, that's how we've done both 10 & 25 man versions.
Keep in mind that I was replying to someone about their group being restricted to 10-man gear (they don't run 25s).

My point was that a group in nothing but 10-man gear isn't going to have the DPS to survive the breaths of doom, no matter what. They will have long exhausted their cooldowns by the time Shadron would be dead. Since they could not possibly bring enough cooldowns to survive, they'd have to use a different strategy: Precisely timed portal hopping.
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Postby Maswin » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:26 am

daemonym wrote:i'm fairly sure that the answer is no, but i wanted to ask anyways. would it be possible using a 3 tank 2 heal 5 dps set up using 90% gear from 10 man raids and emblems only, assuming we're all wearing best available? currently our best dps is an arcane mage at 2800 with a few more upgrades, they will easily break 3k so this leads me to believe that it -might- be with a drop of luck.


We've been trying it since the turn of the year with varying setups but using only 10man gear, and it is incredibly difficult. It feels like we get closer and closer, but never quite enough, despite the amount of setups we've tried (2 tank 2 healer, 2 tank 3 healer, 3 tank 3 healer).

We've almost but given up, but pride kind of keeps pulling us back in. It definitely feels possible, just requires a lot of concentration, perfect timing and one of the biggest factors - luck. With such tight constraints on gear the RNG can really kick you in the balls sometimes.
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