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[10] Sartharion with 3 drakes

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Postby kram » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:57 am

amh wrote:Question!

Can a holy / ret-pally survive using Sacrifice on the Sarth-tank while Vesperon and Shadron are both alive, or would it require a bubble-Sacrifice? Having some trouble getting the timing down, using that extra gcd on bubbling pre-sacrifice seems to be what´s killing us at the moment (sacrifice landing late).


The damage transferred should only be around 10-15k dmg.
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Postby amh » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:25 am

Cheers, that should get us a step further.
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Postby Eroslight » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:37 pm

Wellll

We tried it again tonight

3 tanks:
Prot Pally x2
and a DK (sarth)

3 healers:
Disc
Holy
Resto Sham

and 4 DPS:

Rogue
Ret
DW Unholy
Mage

We having an alright time keeping everything in control - it just seemed that we just couldn't make the transition between Tenebron -> Shadron.

Say we got tenebron down before Vesp landed - we would start AOEing the adds and either die to so much crap going around and the healers not able to keep up - OR people dying in the portal phase since we just had the ret healing in there.

I'll have to look back but they were doing 2.7-3k DPS single target (with AOEing mage increasing it substantially.

I dunno - I'm honestly at a loss at the best way to do it - Can anybody help me out with this?

Do we boot the mage and get a fury warrior? or something more physical synergistic? I don't even know what it could be to be honest.

OR do we start booting melee and get ranged in?

It honestly just seems like the second tenebron is down and the second whelp wave spawn we just are losing the damage incoming race.
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Postby kram » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:08 pm

Eroslight wrote:Wellll

We tried it again tonight

3 tanks:
Prot Pally x2
and a DK (sarth)

3 healers:
Disc
Holy
Resto Sham

and 4 DPS:

Rogue
Ret
DW Unholy
Mage

We having an alright time keeping everything in control - it just seemed that we just couldn't make the transition between Tenebron -> Shadron.

Say we got tenebron down before Vesp landed - we would start AOEing the adds and either die to so much crap going around and the healers not able to keep up - OR people dying in the portal phase since we just had the ret healing in there.

I'll have to look back but they were doing 2.7-3k DPS single target (with AOEing mage increasing it substantially.

I dunno - I'm honestly at a loss at the best way to do it - Can anybody help me out with this?

Do we boot the mage and get a fury warrior? or something more physical synergistic? I don't even know what it could be to be honest.

OR do we start booting melee and get ranged in?

It honestly just seems like the second tenebron is down and the second whelp wave spawn we just are losing the damage incoming race.


Have either your healers or tanks suck it up and replace one for a dps imo.

If you're going to continue to run 3 healers send one of the healers into the portal to heal and let the ret pally DPS less healing overall needed to be done with you all getting out of the portal faster. Try to get as much damage on adds passively by keeping them near the melee (ww&ds dmg), you could have the DK keep diseases up on them.
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Postby Legionp » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:40 pm

Going to try it tonight with this:

Druid on sarth
Warrior on drakes
Pally on adds

Pally / Shaman healing

Warrior
Rogue
Enh Shaman
Hunter
Shadow Priest


I'll let y'all know how it goes, its our first night of attempts. If we need more healing or more dps, we might drop a tank and only use 2.

We may have the shadow priest heal the DPS in the portals, think this could work? Or will we have to have the shaman down there and the pally tank solo heal up top. The latter seems kid of risky to me.

To keep the Sarth tank up we have DG / two HoSac, and the druids CD's. That's 3-4 breaths. Wish us luck!
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Postby firstamendme » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:55 am

Had the most successful attempt yet, still running a 3tank/3heal combo. The only difference, is we had one of the healers (the shaman) spec into a weird resto/elemental build so that the caster dps could take advantage of the elemental totem. We are finally able to get tenebron down before the 2nd whelp wave. Basically the shaman would full on dps until the second drake landed, then switch over to healing. That plus the totem was a huge difference.

Resto Druid
Holy Pally
Ele/Resto Shaman

War Sarthtank
War Draketank
Me Addtank (most fun thing to do on this fight imho)

Boomkin
Shadow priest
Arcane Mage
Survival hunter
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Postby Eroslight » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:11 pm

Anybody know how long we have from once tenebron lands till the second whelp spawn?

Thanks!
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Postby Drae » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:42 pm

Eroslight wrote:Anybody know how long we have from once tenebron lands till the second whelp spawn?

Thanks!
It seems to be inconsistent.
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Postby Frew » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:11 pm

We're rocking 2 healers, 2 tanks.

Druid MT sarth.

Me tanking adds +drakes in middle, pointed towards sarth's belly.

we can get Tenenbron down, Shadron is slower to die and adds are very hard to deal with.

I must say, it makes the 25 man version seem very very easy.
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Postby Eroslight » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:24 pm

Drae wrote:
Eroslight wrote:Anybody know how long we have from once tenebron lands till the second whelp spawn?

Thanks!
It seems to be inconsistent.


Not really - Although I should clarify and say the second WAVE of whelps spawning.

Anybody know? Tenebron lands - spawns eggs - hatches eggs - spawns eggs again - hatches eggs for a second time. Anybody know when that 'hatches eggs for second time' happens at?
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Postby Kup » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:23 pm

To answer the how much DPS do we need for this encounter questions I'd like to clarify 1 thing. The only number I've seen is around 4k per person. That's a good number obviously but can be drastically different per class without looking closer. I've seen an enhancement Shaman do 3200 DPS while a mage and DK broke 4k but the Shaman did significantly more damage to the drakes/sarth.

DON'T BASE EVERYTHING ON WHAT RECOUNT SAYS. Dig a bit deeper before you make moves based on DPS.
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Postby fafhrd » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:10 pm

Also keep in mind that if you're looking at WWS from someone who doesn't go into portals at the same times as everyone else, it won't be at all accurate since his logs don't pick up anything from the portal realm. Not sure what extent Recount is also affected by this.
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Postby arilink » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:04 am

As vague guideline on the required DPS:

From Tenebron being attackable to the spawn of Vesperon's Acolyte you got 105 seconds.
Assuming the drakes have 1.22M HP each you would need a sustained single target DPS of 23.3k to make it in time.
After Vesperon's Acolyte spawned the debuffs on your raid are:
+425% Fire damage.
+163% Shadow damage.

This is when the instagib'ing begins:
Twilight Torment + Meteors will own your raid.
Sarth's Breath would kill your MT.
Shadow Breaths + Adds will kill your OT.

You might assume you will not survive this phase longer than an additional 15 seconds using CDs.

120 seconds on 2.44M HP is 20.3k single target DPS.

However I am not entirely certain about those 15 seconds.
It's mostly about luck and could last longer.
Maybe someone got different experience here (especially post patch)?
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Postby Andris » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:29 pm

(Misunderstood the analysis before, edited with new comments.)

We tried this last night with very poor raid composition (apparently our raid leaders missed the memo about stacking either physical or magic dps, and had a feral druid (tank), hunter, boomkin and 2x mages in one group and a DK (tank), rogue, warrior, affliction lock and ??? in the other. (3 healers)

Our plan (unchanged throughout the night) was to handle things the same way we do in 25-man - tank grabs Tenebron from his starting point and moves him (roughly) to Vesperon's landing point while building threat, and Shadron gets MD'ed to the drake tank. Our DPS seemed to be okay on Tenebron, but very slow and way to low. (our best was Tenebron at around 30% when the second drake landed)

As elucidated further in this thread, both Sartharion and the drakes gain Will of Sartharion (+25% health) when doing 3 drakes, so the 0.96M hp for the drakes increases to ~1.2M hp after Sarth is pulled. I missed an exact number on the whelp health, but about 67k sticks in my mind for some reason. The non-enraged blazes, as someone mentioned, are around 5-10k health (an add tank can kill these while picking up more adds).

So, your DPS requirements for the fight are roughly:

0:20 - 1.2M hp drake lands
1:00 - 67k @ AoE whelps arrive
1:05 - 1.2M hp drake lands
1:50 - 1.2M hp drake lands
2:00 - all debuffs up.

With 4 dps, you'll probably have around 17k dps; 5 dps would be around 21k and 6 dps would be around 25k. At those rates:

4 dps - Tenebron down around 1:30, whelps down around 1:35, Shadron down around 2:45 (about 40-50s of Breath of Doom = 3 cooldowns?)
5 dps - Tenebron down around 1:18, whelps down around 1:22, Shadron down around 2:20 (about 30s of Breath of Doom = 2 cooldowns?)
6 dps - Tenebron down around 1:08, whelps down around 1:11, Shadron down around 2:00 (short window of Breath of Doom = 1 cooldown?)

All these assume that you're actually managing to squeeze about 3.8-4k dps out of most of your raiders; if you've got extra movement and positioning, etc, then

The other factor I haven't mentioned here is that after the 3rd disciple spawns, your dps may have to slow down due to Twilight Torment and the risk of being instagibbed, so the 4dps and 5dps may actually extend the breath-of-doom time by 30-40%.
Last edited by Andris on Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Avengeance » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:33 pm

10 men drakes have 1.2M HP (~900k if they are on their own, but sarth's aura makes them +25% hp, so 1.2 million).
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