[10] Sartharion with 3 drakes

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Postby Lytebohlt » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:28 am

Shadron's disciple also makes Sarth do 50% more fire damage.
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Postby knaughty » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:08 am

Lytebohlt wrote:Shadron's disciple also makes Sarth do 50% more fire damage.


Yeah, but 150% breaths are non-issues when you can cope with 300% ones.

If a 150% can kill your tank, you have no hope of managing the 300% ones. We waited a week before doing +3 for exactly that reason. Warrior tank got one-shot by a 150% breath, we went "this isn't going to work", killed a drake and did +2, came back following week with bear tank and did +3
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Postby kram » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:36 pm

Knaughty wrote:
Lytebohlt wrote:Shadron's disciple also makes Sarth do 50% more fire damage.


Yeah, but 150% breaths are non-issues when you can cope with 300% ones.

If a 150% can kill your tank, you have no hope of managing the 300% ones. We waited a week before doing +3 for exactly that reason. Warrior tank got one-shot by a 150% breath, we went "this isn't going to work", killed a drake and did +2, came back following week with bear tank and did +3


Sartharion has two drakes dead for 50% extra damage ontop of the acolyte adding 50% fire damage. Theres no point risking a tank gib from a ~10k melee swing and a breath.
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Postby Worldie » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:02 pm

Joanadark wrote:
You still risk the death of the MT leaving the acolyte up longer.


Not really. Its the drake that does the 100% fire damage aura. Shadron's acolyte actually does nothing whatsoever at all, other thank putting the shield on Sartharion that makes him take like 2 damage..

I'm still confused about this. The guide who everyone follows says that the 2nd dragon acolyte (i always forget the name, forgive me) gives +50% breath damage, but when i see the buff description, it's just 50% SHADOW damage, and sartharion does none...
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Postby arilink » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:15 pm

The tooltip is incorrect.

This is the bear math for 10-man:

Sartharion's Flame Breath = 8750 - 11250 damage.
Shadron (Power of Shadron): x2
Acolyte of Shadron (Gift of Twilight): x1.5 (noted in wowhead comments)
Acolyte of Vesperon (Twilight Torment): x1.75
Bear Form + Blessing of Sanctuary (0.88 x 0.97): x0.8536

Only Shadron: 14938 - 19206 damage.
Shadron + Acolyte of Shadron: 22407 - 28809 damage.
Shadron + Acolyte of Shadron + Acolyte of Vesperon: 39212 - 50416 damage.
Acolyte of Shadron + Acolyte of Vesperon: 19606 - 25208 damage.
Acolyte of Vesperon: 13071 - 16805 damage.

Shadron + 2 Acolytes + Hand of Sacrifice (x0.7): 27448 - 35291 damage (up to 15125 backfire damage).
Shadron + 2 Acolytes + Pain Supression (x0.6): 23527 - 30250 damage.

Also does breath reset swing timer. So melee -> breath -> melee will always (with -20% attack speed reduce) have 2.3 seconds in between.
Last edited by arilink on Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Joanadark » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:52 pm

Worldie wrote:
Joanadark wrote:
You still risk the death of the MT leaving the acolyte up longer.


Not really. Its the drake that does the 100% fire damage aura. Shadron's acolyte actually does nothing whatsoever at all, other thank putting the shield on Sartharion that makes him take like 2 damage..

I'm still confused about this. The guide who everyone follows says that the 2nd dragon acolyte (i always forget the name, forgive me) gives +50% breath damage, but when i see the buff description, it's just 50% SHADOW damage, and sartharion does none...


Yes. They are right.

So, correction. Sarth does breaths 1.5x his normal breaths, which are completely survivable by a normal tank without using cooldowns.

Inability to keep the Sarth tank alive at this point is inexcusable healer fail, because the incoming damage is completely steady.

Bringing adds under control is far higher priority towards stabilizing the fight than eliminating the acolytes.
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Postby arilink » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:33 pm

I would't call it "completely steady" due to Twilight Revenge that nets a combined +56% to incoming melee damage per stack/killed drake.
That might come unexpected if the healer is not well informed.
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Postby Darkkopi » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:30 am

I finally got this done and won the Black Drake with a roll of 100 :D

My Setup was:
Sarth: Unholy DK
Drakes: Feral Bear
Elem+Whelps: Tankadin (me)

Healers:
Holy Pally
CoH Priest
Resto Shaman

Dps:
BM Hunter
Ench Shaman
FFB Mage
Afflic Lock

The Black Drake
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z240/Darkkopi/bd.jpg
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Postby kensanity » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:03 pm

U did this with 4 dps? What were they puttin out?
Darkkopi wrote:I finally got this done and won the Black Drake with a roll of 100 :D

My Setup was:
Sarth: Unholy DK
Drakes: Feral Bear
Elem+Whelps: Tankadin (me)

Healers:
Holy Pally
CoH Priest
Resto Shaman

Dps:
BM Hunter
Ench Shaman
FFB Mage
Afflic Lock

The Black Drake
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z240/Darkkopi/bd.jpg
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Postby Darkkopi » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:51 am

kensanity wrote:U did this with 4 dps? What were they puttin out?


Yes 4 dps, they were putting out 3.5-4k each.-4k each.
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Postby Morganim » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:22 am

Has anyone else noticed you cant remove twilight torment anymore by meleeing sarth ?
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Postby Janduin » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:43 am

kensanity wrote:U did this with 4 dps? What were they puttin out?
Darkkopi wrote:I finally got this done and won the Black Drake with a roll of 100 :D

My Setup was:
Sarth: Unholy DK
Drakes: Feral Bear
Elem+Whelps: Tankadin (me)

Healers:
Holy Pally
CoH Priest
Resto Shaman

Dps:
BM Hunter
Ench Shaman
FFB Mage
Afflic Lock

The Black Drake
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z240/Darkkopi/bd.jpg


We did this with 4 dps the exact same way pre-patch with tanks/healers (CoH priest on raid, shaman on drake tank/me, holy pally on sarth tank) , except our dps was fury warrior/destro lock/ffb mage/ret paladin. I don't have a WWS but I seem to remember 3-4k dps each. We bloodlusted the first drake and usually managed to have it die before the second whelp spawn, though on our kill attempt I think we had two whelp spawns, which is hectic but isn't the end of the world.
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Postby Maswin » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:24 am

Would the new Lesser flask of Resistence (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44939) now be a viable alternative to Stoneblood for this fight?

650hp is a nice chunk with all the debuffs, but does anyone have any thoughts on the benefit of an extra 50 resistence to fire/shadow dmg?
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Postby Gaffer » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:33 pm

Morganim wrote:Has anyone else noticed you cant remove twilight torment anymore by meleeing sarth ?


This is correct. Twilight Torment now remains after you attack a mob (even non-immune mobs). This is really the only change that actually has an effect on the encounter since you can't depend on "dancing" the Twilight Torment off before breaths.

Other changes include:
- Tenebron no longer moves when hatching eggs
- Twilight Residue when leaving the portal
- Sartharion is properly immune instead of allowing very small hits (this means if you're a DK trying to keep Blade Barrier up, you'll need to use Blood Boil or find some other way to use your Blood Runs.

With the reduced power of Death Knight cooldowns, we ended up adjust strats and bringing a third healer instead of dps. Even with a third healer, raid damage seemed more difficult to deal with but after looking back at the WWS, there wasn't a significant difference in how much total damage Twilight Torment did.
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Postby Sederia » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:06 pm

Maswin wrote:Would the new Lesser flask of Resistence (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44939) now be a viable alternative to Stoneblood for this fight?

650hp is a nice chunk with all the debuffs, but does anyone have any thoughts on the benefit of an extra 50 resistence to fire/shadow dmg?

I was contemplating making a bunch of the BC chromatic flasks, for our next attempt at +2 drakes, for the resists and the added +sta, but the lesser flask showed up so I might make a mix and ask which people would prefer(I get mixology effects, so I was getting boosted stats out of Chromatic so I would use it on Sapphiron so my RL wouldn't complain I had no resist gear)
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