[25] Patchwerk

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Postby hopps » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:02 am

Mex wrote:Mrmm, the exact mechanics of this fight seem to be slightly confusing.

Hatefuls I'm fairly sure are based on the highest health target in melee range, provided that that target is also relatively high on threat.

As far as I know, with the old patchwork, the first target to enter melee range became the MT for the rest of the fight (barring mages pulling agro rolling ignites). I assumed that this behaviour was the same for new Patchwork, but several times I've allowed the MT to enter melee range, followed just after, and at some point during the fight become the "MT" as the old MT started taking hatefuls. I'm assuming that this is an agro thing, since my TPS is very high on that fight. Anyone have any idea on the precise mechanics of MT / OT here?



The hateful strikes cause the 2nd,3rd and 4th highest gain threat, BUT I am almost certain the person who takes the hateful strike starts losing threat, they could just be stopping tps...more experimenting required!

The reason I say this is because if you run with one offtank and he doesn't get topped off every .8 seconds you will see melee get roffled even when they are dipping.

Found it easiest running 2-3 offtanks and 2 paladins...beacon is pretty op. I have seen 6k hps from pallies on this fight!
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Postby Falibard » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:06 pm

Splug wrote:Something is seriously demented with this encounter. Our feral druid mauled him for 217k (crit), 100k non-crit. The bug only lasted a few seconds, and he said the massive numbers never displayed on his screen, but in the span of about 3 seconds he shot from being a safe distance behind our paladin MT to ~4x everyone else's threat. All our parsing tools picked up the druid scoring the same huge hits, and Patchwerk certainly switched targets and threw our whole tanking chain off.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I remember that room being just generally odd on beta. I randomly would gain acclimation: shadow stacked to three while out of combat waiting for Patchwerk to patrol closer to us. I have no idea what caused it, since we weren't even fighting at the time; I just started gaining resistance buffs.

-Splug


I have a thread about a very similar thing happening in my Naxx 10 run this week. Bear tank doubled my threat in the blink of an eye.
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Postby Lousiana » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:40 am

hopps wrote:The reason I say this is because if you run with one offtank and he doesn't get topped off every .8 seconds you will see melee get roffled even when they are dipping.


I don't agree on that. I am still with Worldie:
"Threat is the only factor that determns the OT!"


We had 2 attempts yesterday. Because of this debate here whether it is threat or HP that determins OT we chose to have two tanks to battle for 2nd highest aggro.

First try:
The warrior was a bit too excited. Immediatley took position 2 on Omen and died in a second because healers were asleep.
After that the feral druid OT took every single Hatefull because he was second on aggro list and his HP went down sometime massiveley.

So they battle rezzed the warrior and he climbed to third position on threatmeter. Healers asleep letting our feral druid down and immediatley the warrior takes the hatefuls.


Second try:
We start tanking and our retribution paladin dies within a second of a combo of unlucky crits overthreating the OT.
Again the Feral druid on second position eats every single hatefull. The Deathknigt tank on 3rd position never took a hit.
But around 50% a rogue - brainafk as well - overtakes the feral druid and dies instantly.


I shall confirm next week by letting the warrior tank with less HP than the feral druid OT Patchwerk.

If OT stays second on threatmeter and takes all the hatefulls even with the massive HP difference to the feral druid - threat wins. If not HP wins.



In general:
Our strategy from now on is to bring one OT. To have 2 Holy Paladins crosshealing with beacons. To have the tank with the most HP eating the hatefuls (not because of some HP theory but because he can eat more hates than others) and to have the tank with the best mitigation stats tanking Patchwerk as MT.
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Postby MrDuck » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:15 am

Well first of all, the 13k hit from holy shield in the parse seems to be the same thing that caused that bear on patch do 11k DPS through the fight, its not a bug in parsers nor logs, but something weird bugged on servers making tanks do sick damage sometimes.

Anyways, as far as i know, Patchwerk always had, and still has hiw HS targetted to the guy in melee range with highest current health, and threat shouldnt matter at all. Or am i missing something?
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Postby Markoh » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:01 am

He picks the target that is b/w 2-5 on the threat meter with the highest health in melee range.

And hateful strikes defiantly do add threat, our bear had to stop attacking/doing anything and just stand there and he still almost passed the warrior who was mting it.
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Postby MrDuck » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:12 am

Markoh wrote:He picks the target that is b/w 2-5 on the threat meter with the highest health in melee range.

And hateful strikes defiantly do add threat, our bear had to stop attacking/doing anything and just stand there and he still almost passed the warrior who was mting it.
Well he oneshotted our rogue while he was near the bottom of threatlist when both me and OT were a bit low on hp so the rogue had highest hp in melee range,yet his threat was pretty low.
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Postby amh » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:47 am

MrDuck wrote:Well he oneshotted our rogue while he was near the bottom of threatlist when both me and OT were a bit low on hp so the rogue had highest hp in melee range,yet his threat was pretty low.


This is what I´ve seen as well.
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Postby enbee » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:28 pm

Worldie wrote:Again, melee HP matter nothing for HS. Only the 2nd and 3rd in aggro list get hurtfuls.


Hp of the top aggro matters though, and its not 2nd and 3rd, its 2-> 5
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Postby Sanka » Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:44 pm

solo tanked Patch on 10 man, as our DPS were slacking due to lack of HR so we dropped a tank. wasn't much of a problem, i only took 1 HS throughout the whole fight the rest were avoided/mitgated.

haven't managed to down him on 25 yet though. we use a Druid MT (because his gear is a little lacking) & me (Tankadin) & a Warrior OT. we've been using 5 healers (2 Druids, 1 Priest, 1 Paladin & 1 Shammy). the problem seems to be that regardless of mitigation/avoidance if me or the warrior take 2-3 blocks in a short number of attacks it's game over the damage taken is too much to heal. so i'm thinking this is a healer problem. we're trying again tonight & hoping 1 extra healer plus Judgements of the Just & Imp TC will get us through.

one thing i have noticed is how difficult it seems to be for the MT to keep aggro off the OTs, this was a problem in 10 & 25, for me at least anyway. obviously i could just sit back & eat damage, but with the enrage timer & me being able to produce a good 1500+ DPS that wouldn't be ideal.
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Postby amh » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:55 am

Sanka wrote: i only took 1 HS throughout the whole fight the rest were avoided/mitgated.


The difference between avoidance and mitigation is very big when it comes down to a 20k hit. Besides, he keeps going for the same target until it hits, so that's one very long avoidance-streak you got there.. :)

Sounds more like your healers just healed through it.
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Postby Tyaera » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:21 pm

The reason why OTs tend to generate a lot of threat is that they have unlimited resources (rage/mana) because the HSes hit so hard, and also because each time you get hit by a HS, it gives you a static amount of aggro.,
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Postby Huon » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:30 pm

Promdates wrote:Did heroic PW tonight, and it took our healers 2 pulls before they had the healing down. We tried for 3 tanks, but one of my OT' got wrecked off the bat, so we basically 2 tanked him until about 5%. When he enraged, he raped the bear and kept beating on me through bubble wall.

As a note of irony, If you have a paladin who's prot, have him tank Patchwerk. You won't regret it.

WWS for Patchwerk Notice the 1.2m damage done, almost 4k dps and #1 on damage. Sadly, 3 rogues, 2 ret paladins, dps warrior, the 2 OT's, and an Enh shaman were all gibbed by hateful strike at some point in the fight.


You need highest health and 2nd highest threat. We found that me just being highest health will get anyone above my threat killed in melee range. so when you OT him, make sure you get 2 highest aggro. GL.
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Postby Ragingsoul » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:27 am

we did it yesterday, with a bear MT (he cound't handle the HS) and a prot warrior and me OT.

The melee should run into the water to have lower hp at the start, so that even if the 2 OT are a bit low on hp, the melees don't get 1 shoted.

I had about 300hp more than the warrior, (around 35k buffed) so I took the hatefull first, and if I wan't 100% for the next, then the warrior took it, and so on. we tryed at least 30 times before we could figure out the right setup (I was MT at the begining, but the bear, even with 40k hp dided all the times on the hs).

good luck to all of you out there, this fight is a good gear check for the tanks and healers.
While tanking new content, one rule is important -- it's not about taking less damage; it's about being able to take more.
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Postby enbee » Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:03 am

Sanka wrote:solo tanked Patch on 10 man,


So you had no melee?

And were really lucky?
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Postby Sanka » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:01 am

enbee wrote:So you had no melee?
And were really lucky?


swapped all melee out because we were struggling on DPS.
& my healers are pro.

& to one of the above posters, i didn't have a huge avoidance streak, as i said, i either avoided or mitigated all but one of the HS, mitigation including Block ofc, it's not overly hard with Holy Shield & Redoubt procs.
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