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A well played tankadin can out live a warrior in same gear

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A well played tankadin can out live a warrior in same gear

Postby gomefun2 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:37 pm

Warriors may have 4% mitagation over us or w/e, but I made a spec for my pally at 80 that includes spiritual focus and healing light (8 points in holy). This build has 7 points in ret of course as well, and the rest in prot picking up all of the mitagation stuff.

My pally tank has pretty decent gear (all badge loot, T5, and ZA stuff). I often find myself flash healing or casting holy light on my self mid fight, now that blizzard has buffed push back on spells (no matter how many times you get hit a spell can only be pushed back twice). I don't find myself running oom, or losing threat ever (I'm pretty sure the threat bonus to righteous fury includes healing spells). basically with spiritual focus, I experience almost no loss in cast time, and if there is a holy pally with its aura I dont feel any at all. I can basically build up threat and cast about 3-5 heals on myself, without losing aggro, I can do this once in a while, and my mana will fill itself back up in time so i can do it again.

In the expansion we get sacred shield which is like an extra block every 6 seconds, also this spell increases flash of lights crit chance by 50%. This in combination with touched by the light (30% increase in crit heals), will make you much harder to kill in certain high damage boss encounters (if u cast the sacred shield on yourself, assuming no holy pally).

With my gear (which is beyond kara, I'll admit that), I tanked the last 30% of prince with no healer at all, I just healed myself, I got some mana back from blessing of sanc, and wisdom judgment, and seal, to cast a couple heals on myself.

Warriors cant heal themselves, and right now with my shit gear I can crit heal myself for 4.5k with flash heal (i have almost 16k health). Considering I have no or almost no cast push back, that is pretty significant, during high damage phases, to be able to heal myself for 4.5k more than once (it is like eating 2 health stones every 1.5-2seconds).

Anyway this is just a thought. I heal myself in almost every 5 man 10 man and 25 man. I do it often, so I cant wait for these buffs, to make me uber. IDK if u guys have ever tried to heal ureself midfight, but it helps longevity a lot.
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Postby majiben » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:39 pm

Just no.

and the difference is 1% with the changes to SotT.

A paladin is a better tank in 5 mans due to bringing our own Dev aura and blessings.
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Postby Jasari » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:47 pm

You also can't block/dodge/parry while you're healing yourself making this a terrible idea in most scenarios.
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Postby gomefun2 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:49 pm

spell damage fights lol...

EDIT: that being said, my healers died on prince and I healed myself for the last 30% of the fight, if i didnt heal at all we would have died... so it is probably better over all, at least in that fight it was.
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Postby Amarant_Pally » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:19 pm

gomefun2 wrote:spell damage fights lol...

EDIT: that being said, my healers died on prince and I healed myself for the last 30% of the fight, if i didnt heal at all we would have died... so it is probably better over all, at least in that fight it was.


Is calling "bullshit" against any forums rules?
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Postby Sabindeus » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:28 pm

Amarant_Pally wrote:
gomefun2 wrote:spell damage fights lol...

EDIT: that being said, my healers died on prince and I healed myself for the last 30% of the fight, if i didnt heal at all we would have died... so it is probably better over all, at least in that fight it was.


Is calling "bullshit" against any forums rules?


No.

But despite that, given how nerfed everything is now I don't just disbelieve that out of hand.
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Postby Maihes » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:30 pm

Come on someone making their first post blatantly stating they healed last 30% cant be trolling at all....

That said Prince lasts all of what 1.5-2 minutes total?

Also you would AVOID more damage then you can heal, I would also like to know how you are gettin 4.5k FoLs...
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Postby majiben » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:38 pm

In my last PUG of Kara with undergeared dps prince lasted less than 1 minute 40 seconds. Throw in high block value, low damage swings and bubble wall, SoL, JoL, Pots and I would be suprised that you couldn't live 30 seconds against him without healers.
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Postby gomefun2 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:03 pm

Maihes wrote:Come on someone making their first post blatantly stating they healed last 30% cant be trolling at all....

That said Prince lasts all of what 1.5-2 minutes total?

Also you would AVOID more damage then you can heal, I would also like to know how you are gettin 4.5k FoLs...


I'm honestly not trying to troll. I just think there is perhaps a way to play a pally tank that could put us above warriors. Perhaps to abuse a mechanic that most people dont use. I block for 738 damage (unbuff). I would have to be hit about 4 times in order for healing myself with a crit flash heal to be useless. most bosses will not attack 4 times in 1.5 seconds as far as I'm aware, but I could be wrong.
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:20 pm

With 16k health and with no real spell damage gear, I cant see getting a flash heal for more than 1200-1300...

No way your flash healing for 4.5k in prot gear.

Even in my healing gear with over 1200 spell power I only get crit flash heals for about 3600

If I recall, Prince hits for about what 3k on average or maybe a bit less, so even if your blocking 1k, your still taking hits of 2k.

Really would depend how long it took them to burn him down the last 30%.

Frankly, cant see self healing that fight...odds are you would take more damage casting the heal than you would heal.

But, if your tanking with SoLight/JoLight, have bubble wall and LoH...guess it could be done...seems dicey to me though
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Postby Wakeman » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:28 pm

Self healing is nothing new. However, you would only want to do it when fighting low damage mobs: e.g. AOE grinding or normal instances. Anything above that, you'll probably lose more health when casting than you gain from the heal.

p.s. I'm sure warriors envy us and druids at soloing scourge undead nodes. ;)
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Postby mavfin » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:36 pm

Wakeman wrote:p.s. I'm sure warriors envy us and druids at soloing scourge undead nodes. ;)


And Ony, and a whole bunch of other stuff you can solo because you can heal yourself. :D

Pallies may have been boring to solo in the old days, but you can't deny that they could solo things that a prot warrior solo could only dream about, and still can. It's just a 'feature' of the class.

It's not important for tanking, so don't think I'm QQing about it. It just 'is'.
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Postby Macha » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:46 pm

Good luck doing that when bosses hit you for beyond 12k

Also, on my DK I can survive about 30-40sec without heals. Against *actual* raidbosses. Just requires ability chaining and death strike spamming.
Last edited by Macha on Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mazater » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:47 pm

Here's what you should do:

1. Go to sunwell

2. Go self heal main tanking brutallus

3. Post the results

4. Be amazed, self healing is not an option while tanking against bosses that actually manage to hit you for more than 2k, since you can't dodge/block/parry.

Sure, you can keep yourself up in some fights by self healing, I've done countless of heroics self healing myself on bosses when healers decide to fail, but that does not work on bosses that hit even moderately hard.
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Postby Katamai » Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:27 am

4.5K FoL crits in tanking gear as prot? Bullshit...

Oh and i agree with Mazater... go heal yourself on Brut.
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