A Radically Simple Idea

[luminae]

All right, gentlemen, I just about flipped my lid when I read the blue post about them adding Forbearance back to Avenging Wrath. It seems that yet again, they are damaging our potential to grind threat because of the "OP ret paladin in PVP".

Popping wings while protected by Divine Shield appears to be the issue.

My suggestion is based on the implementation of the current iteration of Divine Protection (which I love love love).

Eliminate Divine Shield. Delete the damned spell from the game. It causes more QQ than any ability I've ever seen, and it will eliminate the issue of wings + immunity to damage.

Think it through with me - Holy doesn't use it offensively; in a pinch, they can reduce incoming damage with Div Prot. Prot doesn't use it at all - immune wipes us off the aggro table for the duration of the buff, and who wants to be stuck with Forbearance when you might need Div Prot?

It has become a crutch. In the name of "balancing" PVP for ret, they are dismantling our PVE viability. My seals have gone down. My judgments have gone down. Now my temporary damage boost, holy's healing boost, are going to be taken away as well.

Nerf what's causing the issues. Take away the bubble.

[Avias]

I just think they should remove forbearance from divine protection.
Do pain suppression or shield wall add forbearance?

[PsiVen]

DS is fine, but Forbearance is ridiculous. DP is useless in PvP when it's better to just wait for DS cooldowns, unless you're dying immediately after you use each of them...

[Grehn|Skipjack]

If Wings goes back to triggering Forbearance, DP is going to have to be taken off.

[luminae]

DS is fine, but Forbearance is ridiculous. DP is useless in PvP when it's better to just wait for DS cooldowns, unless you're dying immediately after you use each of them...

DP wouldn't be useless in PVP if it was all you had. The bubble has caused rivers of tears and the sacrifice of many innocent kittens.

It serves no discernible purpose any more. Forbearance sucks, but you can't remove Forbearance and still have both DP and DS in the game - imagine 24 seconds where you were immune for the first 12 and only took 50% damage for the second.

No, pain suppression does not add Forbearance. But a priest doesn't have a castable immunity shield.

No, shield wall does not add Forbearance. But a warrior can't make himself immune to damage.

[Avias]

I dont really remember, but don't divine protection and divine shield share a cooldown?

If not that is a good way to balance.

[Worldie]

They used to, but at the moment they don't.

[luminae]

I dont really remember, but don't divine protection and divine shield share a cooldown?

If not that is a good way to balance.

they used to...i don't think they do anymore, you just made my brain stall...

[Grehn|Skipjack]

Reduce Forb duration to 1 minute, link DS and DP cooldowns, take DP off of Forb, put Wings back on Forb.

[Avias]

They used to, but at the moment they don't.

Take Forbearance off of divine protection, make them share a cooldown again...fixt.

[ScribeShanky]

I'd rather not lose Bubble... it's just too awesome.

However, the swing penalty for Divine Shield is very outdated and does nothing to stop burst damage. It would make a lot more sense if all damage caused while under the effect of Divine Shield was reduced by 50%. That would further re-enforce the defensive nature of the spell.

[Joacimcans]

I dont see why they couldnt just introduce say a 20 second forbearance or something for Avenging wrath i could totally live with that 20 seconds oh really high TPS that doesnt leave me boned for 3 mins when i need to shield wall/ clear debuffs. or they could just remove forbearance from AW all together and just tie it to have a 12sec CD when DS/DG are active. kind of like you cant have 2 +AP trinkets active at the same time solves alot of the problems with the QQing of OMG he was bubbled and i couldnt hit him while he raped my face off with 20% more damage.

[KysenMurrin]

I like the DP/DS shared cooldown with DP off forbearance idea.

I wonder, though, if the hotfix is just a stopgap while they work at the issue further.

[djellum]

just make wings cancel any bubble currently on, and dont allow them to bubble while its going. you want to burst them you give up some defenses, thats as it should be. forbearance is an overly complicated system. just get rid of forbearance and dont let them stack up.

[SmurfZG]

Think it through with me - Holy doesn't use it offensively;

Yes they do. In arena vs mage/other dps it's pretty much required to spam HL in open arenas against some cool downs. And you'll be counterspelled (and lose the game) if you try that without bubble on.

Anyway, if they're worried about bubbles or wings in arena, just make them unavailable there.