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New Blizzard Tank Forum -> What do we want?

All things related to the expansion

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Postby Amanor » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:34 pm

Danth wrote:"Go play Warhammer imo. Sounds like more what you want."

There are Paladins in Warhammer? No? Then I'm not interested. Besides, I dislike PvP in role-playing games. There are other genres (such as flight sims and shooters) much better suited to fighting real opponents. PvP in role-playing games inevitably strikes me as artificial and contrived. Hence I do not like Warhammer, although I do indeed like the concept artwork for the Knight of the Blazing Sun.

Just because something *is*, does not mean that it cannot change. Warcraft gradually devolved from 'slightly cartoony' to completely over-the-top (as noted, my low level or beta characters looked acceptable). Current design looks so implausible that it suggests genuine ignorance on the part of the artists who create it. I will continue posting my displeasure with that design choice as long as it exists.

I particularly loathe excessive use of glow effects. My sword looks like a lightsaber, my helm could be a lighthouse beacon, and my horse looks like a radioactive mutant. It's ridiculous--and so widespread that it isn't even unique. I don't think it looks 'cool' or 'neat', I think it's silly and makes us look like a bunch of christmas tree ornaments. I might have liked it when I was ten or twelve. If you disagree with my opinion, fine, but I'm not going to change my feelings on the subject--ever.

I'm short on time, so that's all for now.

Danth


You picked the wrong game to play if you were looking for the typical fantasy fare. Rather than complain that the art style of the game, which has always been deeply rooted in the old school animation fundamental of exaggeration, and expect it to conform to your standards, you'd be better off finding a game with an art style that suits your tastes.

When one wants a formal suit, one does not go shopping through an inventory of zoot suits. Savvy?
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Postby knaughty » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:16 pm

Obrimos wrote:Also, your low-level characters started out 'generally cartoony', but the series has ALWAYS been over the top.

Look at Warcraft 3 units. Or Frozen Throne units. This IS the art style. It's never going to look more serious.

This.

Warcraft units looking like, say, stuff from the LotR movies (realistic fantasy) is just wrong. Go play the Warcraft series.

If anything, we need MOAR CHAINMAIL BIKINIS!
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Postby Macha » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:21 pm

Knaughty wrote:If anything, we need MOAR CHAINMAIL BIKINIS!


We do not. It's bad enough they dress Alexstrasa or whatshername up in clothes that would embarass a common prostitute, player characters really don't need to be forced to do the same.

Not here just to be T&A for some horny nerds.
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Postby moduspwnens » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:23 pm

I'd be a fan of chainmail bikinis.
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Postby majiben » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:23 pm

Macha wrote:
Knaughty wrote:If anything, we need MOAR CHAINMAIL BIKINIS!


We do not. It's bad enough they dress Alexstrasa or whatshername up in clothes that would embarass a common prostitute, player characters really don't need to be forced to do the same.

Not here just to be T&A for some horny nerds.
For the ogres silly. You haven't lived till you've seen a ogre in a mail bikini :lol:
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Postby Danth » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:24 pm

I read those suggestions that I ought to find another game. What a silly thing to say. Show me a flawless game and I'll buy it. 'Till then, I'll stick with the best of what's available, and that's Warcraft for now. That doesn't mean I have to like everything about it.

Some of you seem to be equating my comment with comments said by other people over the years. Don't do that. I don't want a photo realistic game or such. Quite the opposite actually--I was largely satisfied with the general state of graphical advancement as much as a decade ago. As noted, I was fine with the Warcraft graphical style circa 2003-2004. Sometime since then it went downhill. Surely all but the most blind Warcraft-addict can sense a stylistic change from then to now! I dislike that design shift. 'Old' World of Warcraft art could best be described as colorful, but plausible. Newer art direction for weapons and armor often leaves any hint of plausibility at the door.

However, I suggest that some of *you* probably need to re-play the older Warcraft games (Warcraft: Orcs and Humans and Warcraft II). I've played the oldest of those within the last few months (old games never die, they just gather dust). You'll find that in many cases the art direction was as plausible as the technology of the early 90's permitted. Also, Warcraft CGI videos generally employ a more plausible, less over-the-top style than actual in-game graphics. I prefer the the video style over the in-game look for the most part.

In the end, all I want is armor that looks like armor and swords that look like swords. I maintain strong opposition to the addition of more glow effects. In this case, less is more. I cannot fathom why anyone enjoys looking like a walking disco ball.

----------------------------------------------

Appearance, of course, is unrelated to actual performance as a tank. In that light, all I want--now, or ever--is general equality with other classes that do the same job.

On lower priority: As a Paladin, I'd appreciate added strength versus Undead, which may or may not come in the form of damage. Everquest Paladins had (eventually) a self-buff which added a random, high-damage damage attack to their melee. Vanguard Paladins were supposed to be resistant to certain types of undead attacks. Making Holy Wrath instant-cast with a stun component was a great addition in this respect, but something geared towards single targets would be great, too. Exorcism feels too unremarkable.

Danth
Last edited by Danth on Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Dantriges » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:27 pm

Oh good god, these silly shoulders. :lol:
I always refer to my T6 shoulders as Flak (antiaircraft) searchlights.

At least we don´t have the warrior shoulders, they suffer a severe tunnelvision syndome. :lol:
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Postby moduspwnens » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:31 pm

I think I like the way the art was designed in this game. It's kinda cartoony and colorful, and while that may sound fruity at first, it makes the game really "come alive." I get bored when I run BRD, MC, BRS, BWL, and Ony. They all have the same theme! Dark, mine-ish, cave-ish, firey-ish. I remember my first time seeing Mulgore after seeing only Durotar and the Barrens on my first toon. It was quite fun.

Heck, look at TBC. Gruul's is just a cave, but Mag is like the Hellfire Citadel style furnace kind of thing. Then SSC is completely different, and TK is way different. Anyway, I think they did a much better job on TBC instances. Everything had its own flavor, ya know?
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Postby Sabindeus » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:31 pm

Danth wrote:I read those suggestions that I ought to find another game. What a silly thing to say. Show me a flawless game and I'll buy it. 'Till then, I'll stick with the best of what's available, and that's Warcraft for now. That doesn't mean I have to like everything about it.

Some of you seem to be equating my comment with comments said by other people over the years. Don't do that. I don't want a photo realistic game or such. Quite the opposite actually--I was largely satisfied with the general state of graphical advancement as much as a decade ago. As noted, I was fine with the Warcraft graphical style circa 2003-2004. Sometime since then it went downhill. Surely all but the most blind Warcraft-addict can sense a stylistic change from then to now! I dislike that design shift. 'Old' World of Warcraft art could best be described as colorful, but plausible. Newer art direction for weapons and armor often leaves any hint of plausibility at the door.

However, I suggest that some of *you* probably need to re-play the older Warcraft games (Warcraft: Orcs and Humans and Warcraft II). I've played the oldest of those within the last few months (old games never die, they just gather dust). You'll find that in many cases the art direction was as plausible as the technology of the early 90's permitted. Also, Warcraft CGI videos generally employ a more plausible, less over-the-top style than actual in-game graphics. I prefer the the video style over the in-game look for the most part.

In the end, all I want is armor that looks like armor and swords that look like swords. I maintain strong opposition to the addition of more glow effects. In this case, less is more. I cannot fathom why anyone enjoys looking like a walking disco ball.


Ok I guess I know what you're talking about with regards to the changing of the art through the Warcraft series, but I see the more flashy stuff we have now as a natural outgrowth of the art direction, rather than it "devolving" as you claim. The original Warcraft was intentionally gritty and muted because that's what they had the capability to make look good back then. Warcraft II bumped up the resolution and color palettes significantly, so you saw more colorful highlights on everything. Warcraft III let them use glow effects at all, and you saw them everywhere, from simple orbs on hero's weapons to lightning shields and nukes and such. It's a natural progression of the technology rather than a change in art style to me.

Also I don't think the CG videos look any different more/less plausible than the in game art, they simply have better ways of showing the same concepts. i.e. using actual models instead of a texture.

Either way, I like it and I don'tfind a problem with it, which is why
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Postby Cema » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:47 pm

I just wanted to post a huuuuuge reply with concerns and suggestions and by the moment I wanted to share it with you I was disconnected froma maintankadin

:(


All in all. i dont have the courage to write it again atm

here is my christmas letter =>

http://www.war-tools.com/t58977.html


principals ideas :
fun
not to much fun cause you would consider me as an idiot :D
something against casters
interesting procs
undispelable mitigation buff
more health
less mana starvation




enjoy :D
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Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:52 am

moduspwnens wrote:I'd be a fan of chainmail bikinis.
Some classics never get old...
Hiborian Chainmail Bikinis ftw.
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Postby Rehlachs- » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:06 am

wish list of a female BE tank:

* less slutty moans/screams when taking hits
* no high end armor that does bare my midriff or other parts of my toon's body, that should be protected
* proper scaling of weapons/shields
* I CAN'T SEE ANYTHING WHEN I'M SURROUNDED BY THOSE GODDAMNED TAUREN
* a flying hawkstrider mount ("WAAAAWRK")
* most hunter pets look more dangerous than I do .. help
* less bullshit-theory-crafting
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Postby 2ndNin » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:02 am

Ouch, I like the BE paladins, rolled myself one up (level 60 :P), slutty and moany they may be, but their weapons look far more in scale than mine or the Gruul weapon stealing males do :P.

Edit: Fantasy armour without bare midriff? isn't that like a gun without a power source so implausible it must be true? Cat and Toast anti-gravity drives ftw!
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Postby Brondar » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:38 am

I'd like to see WoW became Warcraft again. I've posted this already in WoW Sugestion forum, and have it mencioned here - cant remember where.

I think that WoW graphics are really should not look like as a "reallistic fantasy"... BUT I REALLY DONT THINK THAT WE SHOULD LOOK LIKE "DA FAST AND DA FURIOUS" CARS... glowing and pew pew all the time...

If you look into the Warcraft III history, all races and classes had his "signature" armor/weapons. That was incredible, IMO. So, it is cool to have some special effects (mongoose comes to mind)... but I'd rather see my dwarf paladin in a real plate armor, like the one used by the King of the Mountain hero at WCIII... Just look at sonsofthestorm.com and you'll see what Im talking about. Thats how it should be, IMO. Give troll some nasty voodo armor, give humans that big polished metal shoulders (footmens, remember?)... thats the way I think it should be.

As for the instances... I think that TBC got so far away from the Warcraft mood. Look at Darkshire, Hearthglenn, Stratholme, Arathi Highlands. Thats Warcraft. Dark places with some non-ET monsters rdy to jump at you.. I want that back.

Hope WotLK goes back to the Warcraft series look and feelling.

Edit: fixed the site... www.sonsofthestorm.com
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Postby Zironic » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:56 am

Brondar wrote:I'd like to see WoW became Warcraft again. I've posted this already in WoW Sugestion forum, and have it mencioned here - cant remember where.

I think that WoW graphics are really should not look like as a "reallistic fantasy"... BUT I REALLY DONT THINK THAT WE SHOULD LOOK LIKE "DA FAST AND DA FURIOUS" CARS... glowing and pew pew all the time...

If you look into the Warcraft III history, all races and classes had his "signature" armor/weapons. That was incredible, IMO. So, it is cool to have some special effects (mongoose comes to mind)... but I'd rather see my dwarf paladin in a real plate armor, like the one used by the King of the Mountain hero at WCIII... Just look at sonsofthestorm.com and you'll see what Im talking about. Thats how it should be, IMO. Give troll some nasty voodo armor, give humans that big polished metal shoulders (footmens, remember?)... thats the way I think it should be.

As for the instances... I think that TBC got so far away from the Warcraft mood. Look at Darkshire, Hearthglenn, Stratholme, Arathi Highlands. Thats Warcraft. Dark places with some non-ET monsters rdy to jump at you.. I want that back.

Hope WotLK goes back to the Warcraft series look and feelling.

Edit: fixed the site... www.sonsofthestorm.com


I think they've run into this problem because they want the look of the item to reflect how powerful it is.

This worked fairly well pre-tbc where the dungeon blues looked very normal and then you slowly worked yourself up to the oversized and sparkling tier 3.

However in TBC you got the huge shiny weapons as greens while leveling up and the epics were just off the chart.

At some point they'll have to stop this linear curve of bigger, shinier loot or everyone will play a walking lighthouse in 2 expansions.
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