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One solution to rule them all!

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One solution to rule them all!

Postby Katamai » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:40 am

We all know prot got nerfed due to how Blizzard decided to balance ret. We all know SoV/SoCor is steadily losing a place in our rotation (in terms of threat and DPS it generates). We all know JoW/SoW/JoL/SoL that were important for our soloing got hit bad.

So this is an easy way out.

Judgements of the Just
Increases damage and effect of your Seals and Judgements by 20/40% (or 15/30%, numbers need crunching) when a one-handed melee weapon is equipped.
Your Judgement spells also reduce the melee attack speed of the target by 20%.

PvP balance issues - none due to 1H weapon requirement and its spot in prot tree.
Utility - prot's JoW/JoL will be better than ret's. Prot will be DPSing when not tanking. 1H weapom requirement might be an issue here but with ShoR at 80 our DPS should be good enough or better than 2Her in prot spec. This secures us from being forced into holy and makes us viable off tanks through mana regen utility. Won't compete with ret's utility nor challenge other mana batteries but will hold its ground.
Mana regen - almost back to what we had pre nerf. Soloing and OTing once again possible.
Seal and Judgement dmg - once again important for our threat/DPS rotation. Back to roots.

JotJ will finally become worthy of their spot deep in prot tree and will make sure our seals/judgements dmg becomes independent from Ret seal/judgement balancing.

EDIT: Something for our holy brothers in arms. Copy from page 2.
EDIT: Increased dmg by 50% for SoR, included JoR in the description.

Judgements of the Pure
Your Judgement spells increase your casting and melee haste by 2/4/6/8/10% for 1 min and damage caused by your Seal and Judgment of Righteousness by 10/20/30/40/50%.

Not a direct copy but should work. It is also limited to SoR since that should be Holy's DPS seal. Avoids 1h/2h distinction but also limits talent's spectrum. Melee haste already present in the talent also works in synergy with SoR's "dmg on hit" aspect.

Thoughts?
Last edited by Katamai on Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Biscotti » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:58 am

Very well thought out, though JotJ is already worth taking for the attack speed debuff.
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Postby Infernosaint » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:01 am

Very simple idea, which works very well imo.. dunno about numbers, crunching would be good.


I like the idea very much.. Maybe even take it out of JotJ and make it a low tier talent, but still 1h requirement, so that holy can get it too.. they seem to still need some soloing love
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Postby aka » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:06 am

where can we submit this to blizzard inquisitive gaze?
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Postby Rhî » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:10 am

Biscotti wrote:Very well thought out, though JotJ is already worth taking for the attack speed debuff.


-20% Attack Speed is good, yes. But it's not worth a T10 talent. The idea to add more seal and judgement damage there would also fit the 'one, two deep fun prot talents'. More damage is always fun.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:14 am

1) Paladins have either offrole. It's already stated that they want both healing and dps capable tankadin jobs while not tanking
2) Forced into holy? ¬¬

JotJ already rocks. I'm not sure forcing scaling is gonna do the trick here.
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Postby Katamai » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:16 am

Biscotti wrote:Very well thought out, though JotJ is already worth taking for the attack speed debuff.

JotJ is good, no doubt about it. But a T10 2 point talent that only gives us single target utility (20% AS debuff) compared to TC (aoe, base ability) is a bit lackluster.

This change would make it truly worth its spot and supposed power and importance for prot paladins.

@ snake-aes - which is why our DPS is lowest of all tanks due to threat scaling. Am i right? And our healing as prot is very, very questionable. I remember pre pots nerf i used to put on my healing gear and spam FoL on Illidan and Council when we had 4 tanks in the raid and i pulled the short straw. I could do it for ages with pot cd rotation. Now, i run oom before you can say... "oom!". (not that i run oom now cause they're a joke but you get my point)
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Postby mazater » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:29 am

Rhî wrote:-20% Attack Speed is good, yes. But it's not worth a T10 talent. The idea to add more seal and judgement damage there would also fit the 'one, two deep fun prot talents'. More damage is always fun.


Warriors have to spend 3 points to get 20% attack speed reduction out of Tclap. (It's 10% by default plus 4/7/10)

Druids have to spend 3 points to get 20% attack speed reduction with Infected wounds.

Paladins have to spend 2 points to get 20% attack speed reduction with Judgements of the Just.

None of the talents are "mandatory" in a tanking build for any of the classes, but somebody has to take 'em for smoother raids, you might aswell pick the talent up if the other tanks don't want to.
Sure it wont be the best option for your build, but most likely it's not worth those 3 points for any of the other tanking classes either.
Last edited by mazater on Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Nilaus » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:38 am

Very nice suggestion.

It would definately alleviate some of the problem with Ret scaling better than both Prot and Holy and thereby forcing everything to be nerfed so Ret isn't OP.

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Postby Katamai » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:40 am

Mazater wrote:Warriors have to spend 3 points to get 20% attack speed reduction out of Tclap.

Druids have to spend 3 points to get 20% attack speed reduction with Infected wounds.

Paladins have to spend 2 points to get 20% attack speed reduction with Judgements of the Just.

None of the talents are "mandatory" in a tanking build for any of the classes, but somebody has to take 'em for smoother raids, you might aswell pick the talent up if the other tanks don't want to.
Sure it wont be the best option for your build, but most likely it's not worth those 3 points for any of the other tanking classes either.


Warriors spend 3 talent points to get rage cost reduction, 30% dmg increase and 10% extra AS reduction. With the change to AoE tanking they've done, it's pretty much mandatory. And it's their Tier 1.

Druids have to spend 3 pts to get JotJ effect but they also get 50% speed reduction. Along with Berserk (yes it's situational) they also get TC/movement debuff effect on 3 targets.

Paladins spend 2 points and get ONLY AS debuff. At best we can keep it on 2 targets and lose threat on our primary one since we have to rotate judgments.

Things can go both ways you know?
Last edited by Katamai on Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Rhî » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:43 am

Mazater wrote:
Rhî wrote:-20% Attack Speed is good, yes. But it's not worth a T10 talent. The idea to add more seal and judgement damage there would also fit the 'one, two deep fun prot talents'. More damage is always fun.


Warriors have to spend 3 points to get 20% attack speed reduction out of Tclap. (It's 10% by default plus 4/7/10)

Druids have to spend 3 points to get 20% attack speed reduction with Infected wounds.

Paladins have to spend 2 points to get 20% attack speed reduction with Judgements of the Just.

None of the talents are "mandatory" in a tanking build for any of the classes, but somebody has to take 'em for smoother raids, you might aswell pick the talent up if the other tanks don't want to.
Sure it wont be the best option for your build, but most likely it's not worth those 3 points for any of the other tanking classes either.


Warrior is T1, AE, dmg increase and rage reduction.
Bears is T8 and got an additional slow effect on runspeed.

Ours is lackluster. Plain and simple.
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Postby mazater » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:56 am

Katamai wrote:Warriors spend 3 talent points to get rage cost reduction, 30% dmg increase and 10% extra AS reduction. With the change to AoE tanking they've done, it's pretty much mandatory.

Druids have to spend 3 pts to get JotJ effect but they also get 50% speed reduction. Along with Berserk (yes it's situational) they also get TC/movement debuff effect on 3 targets.

Paladins spend 2 points and get ONLY AS debuff.

Things can go both ways you know?

All the things mentioned above have little to no effect on bossfights whatsoever.
Warriors wont be using TC in their normal attack rotation if somebody else keeps up the debuff(since it nerfs their TPS afaik) on the boss.

The druid "bonus" doesnt do anything useful since you don't usually kite bosses.

Yes, I know, there are trash mobs, 5-man instances and whatnot, but I frankly don't care about them and they're ment to be doable without superawesome skillz etc.

Something new to Judgements of the Just would be very nice, yes, but in all honesty, it should be then increased from 2 to 3 talent points.
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:59 am

Mazater wrote:Warriors wont be using TC in their normal attack rotation if somebody else keeps up the debuff(since it nerfs their TPS afaik) on the boss.

Yes, they will. It's excellent single target tps.
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Postby mazater » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:02 am

ziggyunderslashone wrote:
Mazater wrote:Warriors wont be using TC in their normal attack rotation if somebody else keeps up the debuff(since it nerfs their TPS afaik) on the boss.

Yes, they will. It's excellent single target tps.

Funny, I've always thought the optimal rotation for warriors is S.slam, revenge, devastate, hs rince & repeat
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:03 am

Yep, always was, and then they changed thunderclap.
Last edited by ziggyunderslashone on Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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