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Idea: Training Dummies that hits back

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Idea: Training Dummies that hits back

Postby Dianora » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:23 am

Here's an idea for tankadin in all of us: training dummies that hits back just as hard as the mob level indicates, including raid boss. It'll be interesting to see how our defense stats stacks up. The mechanism will be similar to a duel where the fight ended when your health reach 1. You can even set up groups to simulate healing need to sustain the tank.
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Postby Pallypete » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:32 am

I second this, if only for the sheer hilarity of getting my ass kicked by a training dummy. :D
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Postby Lumennon » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:32 am

I guess that has been proposed several times until now already. The fact that it didn't happen so far indicates - I think - that they for some reason don't see fit to do that.
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Postby Sabindeus » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:04 am

Lumennon wrote:I guess that has been proposed several times until now already. The fact that it didn't happen so far indicates - I think - that they for some reason don't see fit to do that.


No, because it creates Problems(TM).
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Postby ARogers » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:06 am

The only problem is that mobs have so many different skills, hit amounts, and speeds. Gorefiend hits much different than Brutallis. Both are boss-level.

If there was a way to adjust it, i'd think it would be a great idea.
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Postby Dianora » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:29 am

ARogers wrote:The only problem is that mobs have so many different skills, hit amounts, and speeds. Gorefiend hits much different than Brutallis. Both are boss-level.

If there was a way to adjust it, i'd think it would be a great idea.


I wasn't going that far. Just a standard raid level boss that hits for 2.0 speed. It wasn't supposed to be an end-all simulator, just to give us an idea. I mean, we have boss that's immuned to fire, arcane, frost spell, and even boss that's 100% immuned to physical damage (thank you 30 minutes AQ40 run to remind me of that).
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Postby halabar » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:52 am

If they hit back, they damn well better give weapon skill-ups then!!! :D
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Postby Jessiespano » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:12 am

halabar wrote:If they hit back, they damn well better give weapon skill-ups then!!! :D


Even better.

I think they could at least do something to let you test attack table stuff with ones that hit back for 100 dmg every 2 seconds or something like that.
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Postby Elsie » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:31 am

It wouldn't be that bad to have training dummies that hit at 1, 1.5, 2 speeds for some nominal amount, say 100 or 1000 base damage. Then make them all level 80 (or 83).
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Postby Sabindeus » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:37 am

Yes except they won't because of Problems.
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Postby Elsie » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:43 am

Sabindeus wrote:Yes except they won't because of Problems.

I see, those are some Problems.
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Postby Chevalier » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:20 pm

They don't want tanks and healers training on a dummy they want them in a dungeon.
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Postby crabcrouton » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:47 pm

Well all that would prove is:

1) Solo, your time to live.
2) If you had healers, how long can your healers keep you up before going oom.
3) If you had dps, how much damage can your dps do in the time it takes for your healers to go oom.

That kind of data isn't useful because it doesn't model a real fight in any way. Also, under those conditions, wouldn't you just wanna try out a raid to be done with it and have a chance to get some loot?

There would also be a lot of peripheral things that get in the way. Should the dummy enrage at a % health or periodically? Should it cast spells the whole time at you or do straight melee? For that matter, can it use abilities? If so, which ones? Should it hit like it was a T7 raid boss or a T8? T9? Does it dual wield? Would there be a timer on the fight or not? Will there be fire on the ground?

If you dilute the dummy down to just whacking for X dps and nothing but, then that gives no meaningful data.
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Postby Elsie » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:52 pm

Actually you're mistaken. The whole point of wanting it is to get hard data on how the mitigation of each tank compares to each other. From a healer perspective, it would let me learn (and thus write guides) how heal pacing has changed. Here's what you should be looking at:

1. Healer pacing data
2. Mitigation effectiveness
3. average vs burst variability on tanks (holy shield vs shield/crit block)
4. Avoidance Diminishing Returns formula (per level)
5. Mana consumption data (for healers at a given pace)
6. Rage/power/mana relative generation
7. Relative strength of Cool Downs for tanks
8. Expected uptime of proc effects

The only relevent thing you posted is spell vs physical damage, and even that would matter only to 2 and 3.
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Postby PsiVen » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:59 pm

Training dummies are there to keep PvPers distracted while they wait 3-4 hours for the next Wintergrasp game.

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