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How fast to raiding in wrath?

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How fast to raiding in wrath?

Postby ARogers » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:05 am

I know a lot of you on the PTR might or might not be able to answer this, but here goes....

Is it pretty comparable to Kara in terms of getting geared for it? For instance, a person with actual skill can be ready for Kara thgouh 75% group quest blues and 5-man drops. Yes, I know they might not be able to take down prince, but to start the first 3-4 bosses of Kara, an intelligent skilled player could get there rather quickly. Is this possible in Wrath too? Can people just get basic gear and kill the first couple bosses weekly and progress from there?

All I ever hear is people steamrolling through the most part of it. I would love to see more of a progression-type playing in there.
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Postby Jasari » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:24 am

Blizzard has said that they expect some people to progress through the early raiding content very quickly. I think they want the more casual raiders to be able to get some farm content so that they are able to kill a few bosses before they start harder progression content. If you remember back when Kara first came out, it wasn't the easy walk in the park that is is now. The first few bosses were simple, but Curator actually used to be tough, and even Maiden wasn't easy. For guilds that aren't as "good" or simply don't raid as much, it would be really frustrating to only kill 2-3 bosses every week for a while.

That being said, I'd expect the later wotlk raids to get more challenging, otherwise guilds will beat the game in a matter of weeks.
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Postby Harlequina » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:31 am

And I hope that even some of the 5-mans (heroics atleast) will stay hard in WotLK... I have this strange feeling that this won't be the case. But am probably wrong. :p

Atleast one or two of them should be "hard".
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Postby Zironic » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:38 am

Moroes and the elite undead around there used to be able to gib tanks.
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Postby Jasari » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:48 am

Zironic wrote:Moroes and the elite undead around there used to be able to gib tanks.


Haha, I remember that. When Valet's were serious business and when a tank accidentally pulled one during and AOE pull it usually meant a wipe.
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Postby Barathorn » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:50 am

Harlequina wrote:And I hope that even some of the 5-mans (heroics atleast) will stay hard in WotLK... I have this strange feeling that this won't be the case. But am probably wrong. :p

Atleast one or two of them should be "hard".


Have Beta testers not already reported normal dungeons being on the same 'difficulty' level as heroics were pre 3.0?

The game has to be harder than it currently is certainly.
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Postby ARogers » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:53 am

I would love to see some really hard heroics. I though MGT was great since it was harder. A moron in blues could run into Heroic SP and still be fine in there. Heroic MGT actually took a bit of skill, and morons in purples still had some trouble with it. Especially tanks.
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Postby Zironic » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:59 am

ARogers wrote:I would love to see some really hard heroics. I though MGT was great since it was harder. A moron in blues could run into Heroic SP and still be fine in there. Heroic MGT actually took a bit of skill, and morons in purples still had some trouble with it. Especially tanks.


Well, while MGT did require some skill, it was also a pain in the ass. If you were a tankadin, like most of us are, then your party was very limited

1) You had to have 2 CC's
2) You had to have a short CD interupt (Pummel/Earthshock/Kick)
3) You had to have people that could handle the seconds boss adds and not die

a party of Mage/rogue/warlock/priest+yourself was so much more effective then anything else it was ludicrous.
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Postby Dapaladin » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:04 am

what? CC? ARE YOU MAD?

I do that place all the time with 1 or no CC and terrible group make-up's for 3rd boss and get it cleared (pre 3.0)

Then again im completely overgeared for the isntance so maybe my experiences aren't valid
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Postby ARogers » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:04 am

Zironic wrote:
ARogers wrote:I would love to see some really hard heroics. I though MGT was great since it was harder. A moron in blues could run into Heroic SP and still be fine in there. Heroic MGT actually took a bit of skill, and morons in purples still had some trouble with it. Especially tanks.


Well, while MGT did require some skill, it was also a pain in the ass. If you were a tankadin, like most of us are, then your party was very limited

1) You had to have 2 CC's
2) You had to have a short CD interupt (Pummel/Earthshock/Kick)
3) You had to have people that could handle the seconds boss adds and not die

a party of Mage/rogue/warlock/priest+yourself was so much more effective then anything else it was ludicrous.


You could really get by easily with 1 mage on Vex. A good mage can take 4 adds and IB. You could also easily take the last 2 sets of adds and bubble on overload and help heal. That only leaves 1-2 sets to deal with. Shammies and warriors had a tough time with them, but i think that is about it.
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Postby Sabindeus » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:06 am

Well first you have to level to 80...
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Postby Andox » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:14 am

Zironic wrote:
ARogers wrote:I would love to see some really hard heroics. I though MGT was great since it was harder. A moron in blues could run into Heroic SP and still be fine in there. Heroic MGT actually took a bit of skill, and morons in purples still had some trouble with it. Especially tanks.


Well, while MGT did require some skill, it was also a pain in the ass. If you were a tankadin, like most of us are, then your party was very limited

1) You had to have 2 CC's
2) You had to have a short CD interupt (Pummel/Earthshock/Kick)
3) You had to have people that could handle the seconds boss adds and not die

a party of Mage/rogue/warlock/priest+yourself was so much more effective then anything else it was ludicrous.


I did it with:

*Me
*Holydin
*MS Warrior
*Elemental Shaman x2

As you see we had no CC and no debuff dumps with us in this group. It wasn't hard, I don't even think we interrupted something, things died to fast. While MGT is a tad bit harder than other heroics, it could still be harder. I want really, really hard 5mans in Wotlk.
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Postby Ashmadai » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:22 am

They're never going to make any really hard 5 mans, because from what I've seen, they don't even want to drop epics in heroics for the most part. The drops are blues that are a bit below Naxx statwise.

Heroic MrT loot was a little too good for a 5 man really. Some of the stuff in there is better than ZA loot, and it's pretty much all better than Kara.

I'm all for challenge in a 5 man, but I wouldn't expect them to make any 5 mans really that hard, because even heroics are only supposed to be there to get gear before you raid.

Besides, challenge is relative. Go do heroics in nothing but greens and maybe you'll get the challenge you desire.
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Postby majiben » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:29 am

Ashmadai wrote:I'm all for challenge in a 5 man, but I wouldn't expect them to make any 5 mans really that hard, because even heroics are only supposed to be there to get gear before you raid.
This is the important point. In TBC blizzard made a bungle by making heroics harder than T4 but made the Loot worse. They have vowed in Wotlk to make heroics the step inbetween regular 5-mans and Raids. It's a pleasant design change.
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Postby Fridmarr » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:00 am

Barathorn wrote:
Harlequina wrote:And I hope that even some of the 5-mans (heroics atleast) will stay hard in WotLK... I have this strange feeling that this won't be the case. But am probably wrong. :p

Atleast one or two of them should be "hard".


Have Beta testers not already reported normal dungeons being on the same 'difficulty' level as heroics were pre 3.0?

The game has to be harder than it currently is certainly.


No, I haven't seen anyone say that, and it's definitely not been my experience. Normal dungeons are much easier than current heroics, even heroics are much easier than current heroics.
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