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Frequently *Answered* Questions 3.0.2 & Wrath.

All things related to the expansion

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Postby Worldie » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:04 pm

Conaan! wrote:
Sarkan-ZdC wrote:3.0.2 in the topic means no level 80 possible :roll:

It is no big deal with the crushings. I don't think it HAS to be in the guide. I just read that statement that even a level 1 can not be crushed by a skull boss. And that is wrong. I did tank a city boss, I did get crushed.

So they scale up with you, but not down.


thats because city bosses are lvl 83 at the moment, thats 13 levels higher, crushes kick in at lvl 4 levels higher (lvl 74 for you) instead of 3, so any lvl 70 raid boss will not crush you

as long as they are ?? bosses they count as level 73.
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Postby Arees » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:14 pm

Worldie wrote:
Conaan! wrote:
Sarkan-ZdC wrote:3.0.2 in the topic means no level 80 possible :roll:

It is no big deal with the crushings. I don't think it HAS to be in the guide. I just read that statement that even a level 1 can not be crushed by a skull boss. And that is wrong. I did tank a city boss, I did get crushed.

So they scale up with you, but not down.


thats because city bosses are lvl 83 at the moment, thats 13 levels higher, crushes kick in at lvl 4 levels higher (lvl 74 for you) instead of 3, so any lvl 70 raid boss will not crush you

as long as they are ?? bosses they count as level 73.


I'm pretty sure they are counting as 83.... I couldn't hold aggro because all I was seeing was dodge/dodge/parry/miss... and when an attack (auto attack) did land it did like 25 damage... that plus I know I was crushed several times...
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Postby Mneme » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:40 pm

Worldie wrote:
Conaan! wrote:
Sarkan-ZdC wrote:3.0.2 in the topic means no level 80 possible :roll:

It is no big deal with the crushings. I don't think it HAS to be in the guide. I just read that statement that even a level 1 can not be crushed by a skull boss. And that is wrong. I did tank a city boss, I did get crushed.

So they scale up with you, but not down.


thats because city bosses are lvl 83 at the moment, thats 13 levels higher, crushes kick in at lvl 4 levels higher (lvl 74 for you) instead of 3, so any lvl 70 raid boss will not crush you

as long as they are ?? bosses they count as level 73.


Faction leaders and heroic training dummies look like they're supposed to be "Boss" level (your level +3) but they are actually hard-coded to be 83 or something. It took us something like 30-40m to kill the belf faction leader with 40 people because everything was either resisted or avoided.
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Postby mavfin » Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:09 pm

yappo wrote:I'm unclear on the taunt-swapping. If you have two tanks doing threat ping-pong, then can't the tank who needs to let got just bubble, and tank two, who hopefully has made absolutely sure to be number two on the threat-list, simply takes over?

Sure, I've never seen a raid, but this is what we do on five-man PUGs with an abundance of tanks and no healers.


In cases like the drakes in BWL, you didn't *want* to be #2, but, a taunt resist was serious enough that we always but 2 tanks on the taunt duty. All we were there for was to taunt off the main tank, eat the wing-buffet that lowered threat, then let the boss go back to the MT, so he kept all his threat, and the DPS could keep going.

So, while the bubble might have worked, I also think on Fankriss and the similar AQ20 boss, you might have run out of bubble cooldowns after a while. And if you get a taunt resist, someone else has to run in there and get it, because by this time, the one tanking probably has a -80% healing debuff....

I'm sure we'll see similar things at 80.
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Postby mavfin » Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:16 pm

Lore wrote:Boss-level mechanics are so complicated I see no problem with just simplifying to "Be level 80" for the purposes of this FAQ.


Well, you can generally consider that some bosses will be considered '83' bosses already, like the city ones. Others, I would consider '63' or '73' bosses, like Onyxia and Gruul. Yes, they're all ??, but, Onyxia won't crush a 60 anymore; I bet Gruul would crush the heck out of the same 60. City bosses will crush anything below an 80, I'd guess.

So, even ?? bosses have a 'base' level on them somewhere that they're set for, from what I can tell.
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Postby knaughty » Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:13 pm

Updates.
This isn't the "Offtankadin" forum. My MoP FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/FAQ-5-0
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Postby Lightbeard » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:39 pm

o forgot to ask

15str vs 2% threat
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Postby knaughty » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:29 pm

Lightbeard wrote:o forgot to ask

15str vs 2% threat

DPS: 15 str
TPS: 2% threat

IE: There isn't a wrong answer at 70. At 80: Armsman (from mem)

Hadn't planned on putting every enchant in the FAQ, it's long enough already.
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Re: Frequently *Answered* Questions 3.0.2 & Wrath.

Postby Deepsky » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:57 pm

Knaughty wrote:Q: You're rude and mean!
A: Yup.


You are awesome Knaughty :P
Gratz on the sticky! I luv you mang :)
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Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:54 am

Worldie wrote:
Conaan! wrote:
Sarkan-ZdC wrote:3.0.2 in the topic means no level 80 possible :roll:

It is no big deal with the crushings. I don't think it HAS to be in the guide. I just read that statement that even a level 1 can not be crushed by a skull boss. And that is wrong. I did tank a city boss, I did get crushed.

So they scale up with you, but not down.


thats because city bosses are lvl 83 at the moment, thats 13 levels higher, crushes kick in at lvl 4 levels higher (lvl 74 for you) instead of 3, so any lvl 70 raid boss will not crush you

as long as they are ?? bosses they count as level 73.


Then, why did it crush me?

And it is a Boss with Skull Level if you go there at level 80 it is still a skull boss.

I'm 100% sure if you take a level 69 and below and let him do a outdoor boss (Doomwalker) he will get crushings too.

So what I'm saying is, bosses have a level (63, 73, 83) and UPGRADE if you are higher, but they don't DOWNGRADE there level just to be nice.
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Postby Zironic » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:24 am

Sarkan-ZdC wrote:Then, why did it crush me?

And it is a Boss with Skull Level if you go there at level 80 it is still a skull boss.

I'm 100% sure if you take a level 69 and below and let him do a outdoor boss (Doomwalker) he will get crushings too.

So what I'm saying is, bosses have a level (63, 73, 83) and UPGRADE if you are higher, but they don't DOWNGRADE there level just to be nice.


Unless they changed something all "Bosses" have an official level of 500 and just act as if they're yourlevel+3.

The city bosses arn't lvl 500, they're lvl 83.

Remember that when you're lvl 70 both lvl 500(boss) and lvl 83(not boss) will show up as a skull since everything yourlevel+10 will show as skull.

Well, you can generally consider that some bosses will be considered '83' bosses already, like the city ones. Others, I would consider '63' or '73' bosses, like Onyxia and Gruul. Yes, they're all ??, but, Onyxia won't crush a 60 anymore; I bet Gruul would crush the heck out of the same 60. City bosses will crush anything below an 80, I'd guess.

So, even ?? bosses have a 'base' level on them somewhere that they're set for, from what I can tell.

Have you actually tested this?
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Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:35 am

Did you try if the city bosses are 83 or skull if you look at them at level 80?
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Postby majiben » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:51 am

From what I can gather there are two competing theories for how boss mobs work.

The first theory:
All boss mobs have a minimum level. They will scale up to match player level+3 but not scale down past point. In this world karazhan bosses would work as lvl 73 mobs of for a level 70, lvl 74 for a level 71 but would be lvl 73 for anyone between levels 1-69. This type scales only up.

The second theory:
There are two kinds of boss mobs. The standard Raid boss who is always player level +3 even with a level 1 character. This first type of boss scales both up and down. There are also special case mobs who at a set, seceret level. In the case of training dummies and Racial bosses would appear to be lvl 83.

Either of these cases can be the truth. easist way to test which is correct is to get a lvl 69 tank into kara and watch a parse to see if they take crushes.
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Postby PsiVen » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:16 pm

?? is not necessarily the same as Boss level, and never has been. The game merely displays anyone 10 or more levels higher than you as being level ??/skull. You can see this plainly even at 70 when you first enter the Howling Fjord and see the 80 elites as ?? storm giants.

If the faction leaders do in fact have the BOSS classification and appear as skull level even to an 80, then I'd be inclined to believe the theory that bosses have a minimum level. I doubt there are multiple types unless they are specifically hard coded to be unique, though perhaps they could set a boss to have a minimum level of 1.
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Postby majiben » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:23 am

I jut saw this pop up in a thread and it might be something you want to add.

The question was Are 10 man versions and 25 man versions of the saved independently? In other words can I do 10 man naxx Thursday night and then do 25 man naxx Friday night?

That has poped up a few times and your FAQ would be a good place to tell the masses that they can do both in a week.
Last edited by majiben on Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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