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Frequently *Answered* Questions 3.0.2 & Wrath.

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Frequently *Answered* Questions 3.0.2 & Wrath.

Postby knaughty » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:24 am

Last edited by knaughty on Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:56 pm, edited 35 times in total.
This isn't the "Offtankadin" forum. My MoP FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/FAQ-5-0
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Postby majiben » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:43 am

Very nicely done, I can't wait to just link this guide and save a lot on finger work. Would you mind throwing This Spec? It trades guarded by light for Divine guardian which is a fair trade if you don't tank every encounter. It's particularly potent in fights like Naj'entus, Hex lord shadow bolts and ZJ lynx phase if HoP is on CD. Divine gaurdian + Hand of sacrafice => a whopping 45% damage reduction on a raidmate.

You could also add in that Sharpening stones do less TPS but more damage and are better with faster weapons just for completion's sake. Also along those lines reckoning gives roughly the same DPS increase as SotP but only half the TPS.

You should have this moved to basic training by a mod if you can :-)
Last edited by majiben on Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:57 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Zironic » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:44 am

A few questions:

1) Why do you drop Just in favor of 3% damage reduction? Isn't 20% > > > 3%? Are you assuming a warrior?

2) Does Lore's dps spec assume you're not the MT considering it takes Divine Guardian over Guarded by the light?

3) "A: Kings Unless you outgear the content, then Sanctuary. You did spec Kings, right? "
Wouldn't it generally be more correct to say "Sanctuary if you go oom, Kings if you don't" since you could for example just pull the entire room if you outgear the place.

4) Based on the whole "You don't need more threat", isn't the adamantite stone better since it does more single target dps? Atleast as far as bosses go.

5) What kind of prot spec is most likely to be best for leveling/instancing 70-80?

6) Does anyone know when 3.1 is supposed to come?
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Postby Mavrix » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:44 am

Would you really recommend Bold or Sovereign over Shifting cuts? As you've said, threat is a non-issue if we pay any kind of attention. More dodge+ac+crit seems more useful in my mind than more ap+small bv boost.
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Postby majiben » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:51 am

Mavrix wrote:Would you really recommend Bold or Sovereign over Shifting cuts? As you've said, threat is a non-issue if we pay any kind of attention. More dodge+ac+crit seems more useful in my mind than more ap+small bv boost.
Agility is affected by the same DR on avoidance as dodge rating. Since current tanking gear is loaded with dodge rating stacking more is fairly ineffective. The crit is a very small amount of threat. The armor is a very small amount less EH than the BV from str. 75% of raw str (before modifiers) will become BV after modifiers all before kings. A 10 str gem would yield 7.5 BV.

Stamina=>EH with a minor threat boost
Defense=>avoidance (yes better than dodge in most cases)
Str=>Threat with a minor Eh boost
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Postby Zironic » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:51 am

Lots of small blockvalue becomes a really big blockvalue. When you see full block on dungeon mobs you're starting to enjoy silly mitigation.

Personally I use the addon "Tankpoints" to tell me what will raise my mitigation by the most, it calculates your effective health and your effective health with avoidance = tankpoints and puts the difference in the tooltip for gear.
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Postby knaughty » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:57 am

Zironic wrote:1) Why do you drop Just in favor of 3% damage reduction? Isn't 20% > > > 3%? Are you assuming a warrior?

Typo, fixed.
Zironic wrote:2) Does Lore's dps spec assume you're not the MT considering it takes Divine Guardian over Guarded by the light?

Lore's DPS spec takes DG. Ask Lore why. My guess is "Fun and amusement in old content and for doing crazy paladin tricksies.
Zironic wrote:3) "A: Kings Unless you outgear the content, then Sanctuary. You did spec Kings, right? "
Wouldn't it generally be more correct to say "Sanctuary if you go oom, Kings if you don't" since you could for example just pull the entire room if you outgear the place.

Same thing. Pulling the entire instance doesn't help if you still take no damage. I'm doing Achievement 5-mans without a healer ATM....
Zironic wrote:4) Based on the whole "You don't need more threat", isn't the adamantite stone better since it does more single target dps? Atleast as far as bosses go.

No.
Zironic wrote:5) What kind of prot spec is most likely to be best for leveling/instancing 70-80?

Best for WHAT? What class is best? What spec is best?

Ask a question with some structure to it.

Fastest paladin levelling spec is PvE Ret.
Zironic wrote:6) Does anyone know when 3.1 is supposed to come?

Blizzard.
This isn't the "Offtankadin" forum. My MoP FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/FAQ-5-0
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Postby majiben » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:57 am

Zironic wrote:A few questions:
2) Does Lore's dps spec assume you're not the MT considering it takes Divine Guardian over Guarded by the light?
Lore's spec has GbL. You might be looking at my suggested build which take DG.
Zironic wrote:3) "A: Kings Unless you outgear the content, then Sanctuary. You did spec Kings, right? "
Wouldn't it generally be more correct to say "Sanctuary if you go oom, Kings if you don't" since you could for example just pull the entire room if you outgear the place.
He was talking about bosses in that case I believe. Knaughtly has a boss bias that's not a real problem if you know how to read between the lines. In any boss fight you don't severely over gear Kings is better. 95% of the time you will want BoSanc for trash of any sort.
Zironic wrote:4) Based on the whole "You don't need more threat", isn't the adamantite stone better since it does more single target dps? Atleast as far as bosses go.
wizard oil is better TPS because it boosts almost all your holy damage while the stones pretty much affect only melee and HotR.
Last edited by majiben on Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby knaughty » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:01 am

Mavrix wrote:Would you really recommend Bold or Sovereign over Shifting cuts? As you've said, threat is a non-issue if we pay any kind of attention. More dodge+ac+crit seems more useful in my mind than more ap+small bv boost.

Strength = Mitigation (EH) & threat/DPS.

Agility = Avoidance & Crit. Armor bonus is negligible.

Crit sucks, and if you're going to gem for avoidance, gem defence (or dodge, of you must, but defence is much better).
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Postby knaughty » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:04 am

Majiben wrote: Knaughtly has a boss BIAS

FIXT.

Everything I post is "Progression Maintankadin" focussed.

Inc new sig.
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Postby knaughty » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:10 am

Majiben wrote:Very nicely done

Thanks
Majiben wrote:Also along those lines reckoning gives roughly the same DPS increase as SotP but only half the TPS.

Right... so it's the same number of talent points as SotP, does the same damage (maybe) and half the TPS.

So it's always worse.

Don't spec it.
Majiben wrote:You should have this moved to basic training by a mod if you can :-)

If people read basic training, I wouldn't have to put up a FAQ!
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Postby majiben » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:13 am

Knaughty wrote:
Majiben wrote: Knaughtly has a boss BIAS

FIXT.

Everything I post is "Progression Maintankadin" focussed.

Inc new sig.
Not to say that you couldn't/won't/not allowed to tank the bosses but not everyone feels the NEED to force all other tanks to bow down before them. Hell I've only MTed 2/4 bosses in hyjal out of the 4 my guild has seen but not because we wanted a warrior or druid to do it but becuase I was the one with the fire resist gear or better snap threat. Not MTing the boss all the time is not a sign of weaknes, in fact it's a sign of strength for your tanking corps.

Edit: and thanks for pointing out the typo. Nothing worse than conveying the wrong message through error. :-)
Last edited by majiben on Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Zironic » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:15 am

Lore's spec has GbL. You might be looking at my suggested build which take DG.


I was looking at Lore's Prot DPS.
He was talking about bosses in that case I believe. Knaughtly has a boss basis that's not a real problem if you know how to read between the lines. In any boss fight you don't severely over gear Kings is better. 95% of the time you will want BoSanc for trash of any sort.


Then I get it, In a progression boss fight I'd really like to have both blessings though, never leave home without a pet retridin with 5/5 kings and imp retribution aura.

wizard oil is better TPS because it boosts almost all your holy damage while the stones pretty much affect only melee and HotR.


The point was that when threat isn't an issue you want to maximise dps and in the other thread you said that the stone has slightly higher dps then the oil has.


Best for WHAT? What class is best? What spec is best?

Ask a question with some structure to it.

Fastest paladin levelling spec is PvE Ret.


I want to level as Prot and not Ret though, atleast until dual spec shows up so I can have them both at the same time.

I'm thinking something along the lines of:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZ0xVAcuMtjIRMoL

Will have you doing maximum prot dps and you'll have Shield of the templar/1 point improved judgement by the time you ding 65


Blizzard.

Was hoping someone had leaked some info :(
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Postby majiben » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:19 am

Zironic wrote:
Lore's spec has GbL. You might be looking at my suggested build which take DG.


I was looking at Lore's Prot DPS.

My error. I read lore and spec and thought of the spec knaughty posted in another thread. I didn't realize that lore had two specs attributed to him in this thread.
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Postby Macha » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:19 am

Q: So I should I spec SotP then?
A: Not for threat. You don't need threat. If you just want damage... sure. But not for "tanking optimised level 70 builds"


This part needs an addition:
Unless SotT also gets the damage reduction buff it has on the beta at the moment. For then it IS needed in tanking optimised lv70 builds.


Also, all good Holy Paladins spec into Kings, so unless one only runs 10man content without kings, the Faq should mention that a good Prot Paladin does not spec kings. There will always be at least one holy Paladin putting it up instead, which is a better choice for everyone involved.
Last edited by Macha on Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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