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New build(9095)/3.0.3

All things related to the expansion

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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:13 pm

Splug wrote:Shield slam rank 8 has a base damage range of 990 to 1040 (avg 1015). Rank 7 has 837 to 879 (avg 858). The top rank has 18.3% more base damage than the previous rank. Shield of Righteousness is 300 and 400, respectively. The top rank has 33% more damage than the previous rank. I believe shield slam rank 7 was lv 75, but can't confirm atm.

Also, don't forget that 150 damage increase on shield slam passes through armor, where shield of righteousness ignores it.

-Splug


Well it's not really a fair comparison to start with, but comparing percentage increases in various ranks of spells is pretty irrelevant too. I mean, in TBC max rank SoR did like 1 more damage than the previous rank. Different skills are different.

I guess they wanted us to have 2 ranks for this for whatever reason. I was content when we thought it was just one rank, and content when we hoped that the level 75 version was the max rank and we had a level 70 version coming. So, I'm happy to see the little buff to it at 80 even though it's inconsequential.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:25 pm

Rank 2 should hit 2 add'l targets imo. ^_^
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Postby Lightbeard » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:30 pm

wait the new Hammer causes a dot?
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Postby Andryana » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:59 pm

Lightbeard wrote:wait the new Hammer causes a dot?


No,it just procs SoV on all targets if you have it on.
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Postby crabcrouton » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:39 pm

Okay quick math here to compare.

Assuming a 1000 BV for easy comparison, this is what we see:

ShoR: (400+1000) * 1.3 (Shield Spec) * 1.1 (1-H Spec) * 1.3 (Shield of the Templar) = 2603

SS: (1015+1000) * 1.3 (Shield Spec) * 1.1 (1-H Spec) * 1.1 (Gag Order) * 1.1 (Imp Def Stance) * 0.9 (Defensive Stance reduction) = 3137 dmg

The difference is roughly 17%. This means that at any time SS is used on a mob with more than 17% armor reduction, it'll do less damage than ShoR would. Most mobs have quite a bit more armor than this. Stop the QQ already.
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Postby Io.Draco » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:47 pm

Almost double that ammount of armor with full sunders up
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Postby crabcrouton » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:52 pm

Sunders = Curse of the Elements. If you wanna talk about raid debuffs, there are lots of choose from, and none of them matter.
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Postby Io.Draco » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:57 pm

crabcrouton wrote:Sunders = Curse of the Elements. If you wanna talk about raid debuffs, there are lots of choose from, and none of them matter.


Uhm I was merely poiting out that a boss even with full sunders on has more then double of 17% armor mitigation :P

Gues it came out wrong heh
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Postby crabcrouton » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:00 pm

ah I see. ^_^;
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Postby knaughty » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:12 pm

crabcrouton wrote:Okay quick math here to compare.

Assuming a 1000 BV for easy comparison, this is what we see:

ShoR: (400+1000) * 1.3 (Shield Spec) * 1.1 (1-H Spec) * 1.3 (Shield of the Templar) = 2603

SS: (1015+1000) * 1.3 (Shield Spec) * 1.1 (1-H Spec) * 1.1 (Gag Order) * 1.1 (Imp Def Stance) * 0.9 (Defensive Stance reduction) = 3137 dmg.


And with sunder x 5 & CoE (or equivalents) up, those numbers go to:

2,603 x 1.13 = 2,913 Holy

3,137 less 20-30% = 2,200 - 2,500 Physical

Ours hits for more, and has a higher threat multiplier.

Less QQ, more ShieldToFace.

Also worth noting that ours scales much better:

Pally: 1.86 damage per BV
Warrior: 1.56 damage per BV

And the BV numbers are low. I'm running around with 1k at level 70, in balanced tanking gear. BV gear is more like 1200-1300, before trinket activation and libram proc. Close to 2k with everything up... at level 70
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Postby majiben » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:27 pm

crabcrouton wrote:Okay quick math here to compare.

Assuming a 1000 BV for easy comparison, this is what we see:

ShoR: (400+1000) * 1.3 (Shield Spec) * 1.1 (1-H Spec) * 1.3 (Shield of the Templar) = 2603

SS: (1015+1000) * 1.3 (Shield Spec) * 1.1 (1-H Spec) * 1.1 (Gag Order) * 1.1 (Imp Def Stance) * 0.9 (Defensive Stance reduction) = 3137 dmg

The difference is roughly 17%. This means that at any time SS is used on a mob with more than 17% armor reduction, it'll do less damage than ShoR would. Most mobs have quite a bit more armor than this. Stop the QQ already.
I thought the damage reduction in defensive stance was being removed with wotlk.
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Postby Jensaarai » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:44 pm

Shield of Righteousness is fine post-75...it's pre-75 that's pretty lame, when warriors get it at 40 :/

It's easy enough to change percentages throughout ranks...whatever. I think it's totally ridiculous, others don't agree, but oh well. Paladins get judgement, holy shield, and consecrate until level...62? Then we get one more attack...when warriors get an incredibly good baseline skill at level 40 (shield slam), along with revenge, sunder, heroic strike, shield block, thunderclap...it just blows my mind.

:/
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Postby Mavrix » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:47 pm

I think we're doing fine on threat at 70.
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Postby Basseman » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:04 pm

crabcrouton wrote:Okay quick math here to compare.

Assuming a 1000 BV for easy comparison, this is what we see:

ShoR: (400+1000) * 1.3 (Shield Spec) * 1.1 (1-H Spec) * 1.3 (Shield of the Templar) = 2603

SS: (1015+1000) * 1.3 (Shield Spec) * 1.1 (1-H Spec) * 1.1 (Gag Order) * 1.1 (Imp Def Stance) * 0.9 (Defensive Stance reduction) = 3137 dmg

The difference is roughly 17%. This means that at any time SS is used on a mob with more than 17% armor reduction, it'll do less damage than ShoR would. Most mobs have quite a bit more armor than this. Stop the QQ already.


Just a quick thing, you can't mulitply basedamage with Shield spec, correct has to be (400+1300) / (1015+1300)
wich will give the more close results: ShoR 2259 & SS 2521 , wich is no major diffrence.
And as said, with the damage reduction on mobs & the 13% more spelldamage, ShoR will do more damage and scales better.

Example with 1500 BV:
ShoR- 400+(1500*1.3) * 1.3 * 1.1 * 1.13 = 3797
SS- 1015+(1500*1.3) * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.02(Phys damage taken debuff) *0.9 = 3293

So in the end, the tiny basedamage we have is quite irrelevant. We scale better, be happy! :P
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Postby Splug » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:24 am

Majiben wrote:
crabcrouton wrote:Okay quick math here to compare.

Assuming a 1000 BV for easy comparison, this is what we see:

ShoR: (400+1000) * 1.3 (Shield Spec) * 1.1 (1-H Spec) * 1.3 (Shield of the Templar) = 2603

SS: (1015+1000) * 1.3 (Shield Spec) * 1.1 (1-H Spec) * 1.1 (Gag Order) * 1.1 (Imp Def Stance) * 0.9 (Defensive Stance reduction) = 3137 dmg

The difference is roughly 17%. This means that at any time SS is used on a mob with more than 17% armor reduction, it'll do less damage than ShoR would. Most mobs have quite a bit more armor than this. Stop the QQ already.
I thought the damage reduction in defensive stance was being removed with wotlk.
Well, almost. The damage output reduction still exists, but the improved defensive stance talent gives you a +10% damage enrage whenever you dodge, parry, or block. Both of those multipliers were in Knaughty's calculations. The net result is +10% -10%, but since they're multiplicative and .9*1.1 != 1, the defensive stance / improved defensive stance calculations here are correct.
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