Northrend normality?

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Northrend normality?

Postby Sevrinax » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:01 pm

So, all prot tank classes are doing big dps now.

Will this continue? I understand 3.0.2 is balanced around level 80 - so will the prot dps in NR return to what it was prior to patch 3.x? I know many of you have been in beta - any comment on this?

People are chewing shit up in OL now - will NR bring prot tanks back to earth?
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Re: Northrend normality?

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:12 pm

Sevrinax wrote:So, all prot tank classes are doing big dps now.

Will this continue? I understand 3.0.2 is balanced around level 80 - so will the prot dps in NR return to what it was prior to patch 3.x? I know many of you have been in beta - any comment on this?

People are chewing shit up in OL now - will NR bring prot tanks back to earth?


No. Tanks are intended to do more damage now than previously.
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Postby Sevrinax » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:42 pm

Despite the risk of suffering accusations of sophistry, allow me to elucidate:

The goal, as I understand it, was not so much to increase damage as increase threat generation by tanks. At this time, it appears that this is being achieved with big dps numbers.

However, aside from a few random posts and threads in the previous few months, the implementation on 3.x has seen many folks incredulous at the single and aoe target dps being done by tanks. This leads me to question whether in Northrend, the ratio or scale between a tank and a dps class will return to previous levels.

If not, I see no reason why you wouldn't zerg the 5 mans with 3 or 4 tanks and the complement being healers. The dps of prot plate is sufficient to justify such a group at this time.

Or maybe I'm just a goddamn fruitcake :) Dunno, not enuff sleep :)
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Postby Salamandra » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:48 pm

They did state both that they want tanks to do relatively more damage than they are now, and also that they didn't want threat to be as much of an issue. Hence they're upping the damage of tanking classes and as a result of that upping threat.

The increased damage of tanks is intended at both 70 and 80.

And... I don't think taking 4 tanks and 1 healer is very good in a 5-man. The damage of tanks is still lower than dps, and it's generally worse to have several people taking damage rather than 1, even if the amount of damage taken is the same. Hence negating the advantage you would have.
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Postby ubaduck » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:08 pm

also if u have 3-4 tanks even with the new sanc u are gonna get mana/rage starved
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Postby majiben » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:01 pm

ubaduck wrote:also if u have 3-4 tanks even with the new sanc u are gonna get mana/rage starved
You could get away with it with some druids and deathknights. I think what the OP was saying is in hard instances you could take really hardy tanks who do some dps to eliminate the risk of wiping instead of taking the traditional group. I could see that being a problem in blizzard's eyes but I don't think they are going to tune 5man instances so tightly from now on.
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:07 pm

Sevrinax wrote:Despite the risk of suffering accusations of sophistry, allow me to elucidate:

The goal, as I understand it, was not so much to increase damage as increase threat generation by tanks. At this time, it appears that this is being achieved with big dps numbers.

However, aside from a few random posts and threads in the previous few months, the implementation on 3.x has seen many folks incredulous at the single and aoe target dps being done by tanks. This leads me to question whether in Northrend, the ratio or scale between a tank and a dps class will return to previous levels.

If not, I see no reason why you wouldn't zerg the 5 mans with 3 or 4 tanks and the complement being healers. The dps of prot plate is sufficient to justify such a group at this time.

Or maybe I'm just a goddamn fruitcake :) Dunno, not enuff sleep :)


I'll go with fruitcake. In any event, the DPS of tanks in beta has fluctuated quite a bit. There was a time where 12k ShoR crits were somewhat common. They have things in a better balance now, but they stated that they do want tanks to have a higher damage output relative to the DPS classes than we are used to seeing. They decided that would be more fun for tanks not only while tanking but also questing and grinding.
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Postby Ashmadai » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:59 am

What I've seen in 3.0 so far is kind of like this, and I'm only going to talk about single target because if you mix in AoE a Prot Pally is going to do a ton of damage. Even before 3.0 I would beat some DPS in like Kara and places where I was AoEing a ton at a time.

Assuming everybody is geared like my Paladin(Badge/ZA):

DPS classes
1200-1500 DPS sustained

Tank
900 or so DPS sustained

Tanks are closer to DPS than we were before, but I think that's the idea. That's why they took out of the high threat component of so many abilities and just beefed up the damage. Now if feels like you're actually contributing to the ass beating by throwing down with some damage rather than just standing there holding agro.
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Postby Petrus » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:07 pm

Depending on the number of adds in the fight, I can put out more dps than my mage now. On singletarget fights, I did about 300 dps prepatch and do between 600 and 800 depending on the number of silences I run into.
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Postby EvilNuff » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:15 pm

Petrus wrote:Depending on the number of adds in the fight, I can put out more dps than my mage now. On singletarget fights, I did about 300 dps prepatch and do between 600 and 800 depending on the number of silences I run into.


^^^ this.

My fixed group is Tankadin (me), Healadin, Warlock, SPriest, Mage...we leveled 1-70 in instances together. We all have a smattering of Kara gear and a little boj gear. Probably about half epics half blues on us.

Pre 3.0 we went from carefully moving through easier heroics (with several wipes) using maximum cc on pulls. Discussing how to handle the next pull, etc to 3.0. Now in 3.0 we did H Shattered Halls last night (which we have never completed before) in an AoE run where I literally just pulled the largest pulls I could...no difficultly really at all.

With that said, I topped the dps meters...and not by a small margin just because we aoe'd everything and I was full mana for the entire run.
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Postby kurros » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:26 pm

Sevrinax wrote:If not, I see no reason why you wouldn't zerg the 5 mans with 3 or 4 tanks and the complement being healers.


A: finding 3-4 tanks for a pug group is an impossibility on most servers.

B: 1 tank +3 DPS can clear faster, even if only slightly so.

C: Less gear overlap and wastage by taking a balanced group.

D: This isn't a problem even if it does occur.
Anyway, lets just agree to disagree. Go away, or I'll just start reporting you to the mods for being a troll. In exchange, I'll stop pointing out your stupid in public.
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