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Single Target Taunt Mechanic

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Single Target Taunt Mechanic

Postby agamemnoch » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:42 pm

I had an idea for a single target taunt that would be genuinely Paladin flavored.

Instead of just a growl, or a shout or anything type of taunt, why not make our taunt a judgment that is off the GCD?

It would make it 8 or 10 seconds (and could be talented from the ret tree to lower the CD).

It would allow us to taunt a single target within judgment range, and that's all people really want, along with doing some damage and being downright effective.

It would not matter if it was used on a regular mob/boss we were high on threat with. We could just use it when a mob/boss gets loose.

"Oh no, Big Ugly guy ran by me after being hit by the 3d pyro crit. Judge his ass with the right one and blammo, back on the top of threat"

4 Horsemen would be a smaller issue, run in, target, and judge, run away, done.
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Postby Chunes » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:45 pm

/agreed.

Make it inturrupt spellcasting at the same time.

call it:

Judgement of Justice.
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Postby Kayoto » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:04 pm

I'd rather not have a taunt incorporated into something that's a staple of our regular threat rotation. :/
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Postby agamemnoch » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:07 pm

Kayoto wrote:I'd rather not have a taunt incorporated into something that's a staple of our regular threat rotation. :/


Why not? Threat is less of an issue, as well as it makes you INSTANTLY top on the threat meter.

It is basically a reverse misdirect. Imagine a hunter NOT misdirecting and taking an aimed shot. The boss runs, you judge, and voila, you are on the top of the threat. Now, the boss is misdirected by the same hunter and you have a lead

Proceed to Pwn Face.
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Postby Elsie » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Agamemnoch wrote:
Kayoto wrote:I'd rather not have a taunt incorporated into something that's a staple of our regular threat rotation. :/


Why not? Threat is less of an issue, as well as it makes you INSTANTLY top on the threat meter.

It is basically a reverse misdirect. Imagine a hunter NOT misdirecting and taking an aimed shot. The boss runs, you judge, and voila, you are on the top of the threat. Now, the boss is misdirected by the same hunter and you have a lead

Proceed to Pwn Face.

Because if we're not tanking we're screwed out of a major DPS abilitiy. It's like putting taunt on devastate or revenge. Something like 4h would screw us after our tank target is killed. Other examples where this is bad: illidan flames, brutallus, most pre-bc content, etc.
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Postby Splug » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:00 pm

I think the implication was to stick it on a seperate judgement (such as justice, which currently provides a null debuff for pve scenarios), meaning that while there would be a lockout issue due to already using judgement as a threat builder, you'd be able to use judgement of wisdom or light for threat/damage, and judgement of justice if you wanted a taunt.

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Postby Swagger » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:40 pm

Splug wrote:I think the implication was to stick it on a seperate judgement (such as justice, which currently provides a null debuff for pve scenarios), meaning that while there would be a lockout issue due to already using judgement as a threat builder, you'd be able to use judgement of wisdom or light for threat/damage, and judgement of justice if you wanted a taunt.

-Splug


^^ This.

I like the rough idea, I think it needs to be fleshed out, but could work out pretty well. The downside, though, would be not being able to taunt if you have just judged light or wisdom, but we would still have RD.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:46 pm

Adding it to JoJ wouldn't be ideal, but it'd be better than what we have now.

Which is to say, nothing.

Yes, having it on a core ability is kind of limiting, but it's not like other classes don't have the same problem (e.g., earthshock).
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Postby Macawber » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:57 pm

I also don't like adding a taunt to a judgment. Most of the time you'll want to judge as often as you can fit it into your rotation, both for the threat and for the debuff. On bosses where you can expect you have to taunt, I wouldn't want to be forced not to judge at all, just to make sure it's on cooldown. In cases where you weren't expecting to have to taunt, you'll likely have to wait a few seconds because judgment will be on cooldown.

I also don't think we need another 'special' taunt, since we already have righteous defense. All tanks should get the basic single target taunt, plus one special taunt for their class (death grip, challenging shout/roar). I don't think paladins should be any different in this regard: give me a regular taunt + righteous defense and I'll be happy. If the cooldown on RD needs to be increased for balancing, that's fine (I believe they did that when death knights got a regular taunt).
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Postby Origon » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:22 am

fuzzygeek wrote:Adding it to JoJ wouldn't be ideal, but it'd be better than what we have now


If it was JoJ only, wouldn't that be pretty much ideal? since its not used as part of our regular threat rotation, isn't used by us on bosses when not tanking, taunt will have no effect in pvp (where its used the most probably). The only problem i can see would be when you want to snare mobs while not actually tanking them or prevent them from fleeing (but even in a 10man there would be other classes for that)
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Postby Consecrator » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:26 am

Or you can just taunt them and they will come to you
When I was 8 years old, I watched my mother kill a spider with a tea cozy. Many years later I would find out that it wasnt a spider, it was my uncle harold.
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:30 am

I think the point is that while we probably need a single target taunt, due to the fact that we already have a taunt thats workable (in some cases superior) for 95% of the game, anything additional we get to it needs some form of downside. Blowing an 8-10 second cooldown would fit that bill perfectly. It's not something you'd want to use commonly, but when needed its available.
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Postby Consecrator » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:41 am

So hes saying that we should have a second taunt? I understood it as to take the place of our current taunt. If youre asking for a second taunt then its even worse. If we get a second taunt, then obv with the way things are now (Tank unity) druids and warriors would also need another taunt for muti targets. I like the triple taunt because it's one of the few things we have that are different. everyone complains that we are to alike now and then they want to take away one more of our unique abilities. Shame on you good sir. Shame on you all!

p.s - the ! was only for effect, im not really mad.
When I was 8 years old, I watched my mother kill a spider with a tea cozy. Many years later I would find out that it wasnt a spider, it was my uncle harold.
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Postby MrDuck » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:07 am

Consecrator wrote:So hes saying that we should have a second taunt? I understood it as to take the place of our current taunt. If youre asking for a second taunt then its even worse. If we get a second taunt, then obv with the way things are now (Tank unity) druids and warriors would also need another taunt for muti targets. I like the triple taunt because it's one of the few things we have that are different. everyone complains that we are to alike now and then they want to take away one more of our unique abilities. Shame on you good sir. Shame on you all!

p.s - the ! was only for effect, im not really mad.
All other tanks have more than just 1 taunt,so why should they need yet another?

Tell me how to do 4horsemen without some weird workarounds with our RD and we can talk :/
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:09 am

Consecrator wrote:If we get a second taunt, then obv with the way things are now (Tank unity) druids and warriors would also need another taunt for muti targets.

They have one, and it's downside is a long cooldown.

That form of penalty wouldn't work for the task a target specific paladin taunt is required for, so it needs another.
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