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Expertise - which abilities does it help?

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Postby crabcrouton » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:08 pm

Knaught's right, there just aren't enough decent alternatives. Because of a lack of alternatives, this glyph is pretty good.

However, saying it's such a desirable stat that you'd automatically want to max it out as soon as possible on your gear is... so far unproven. With the way abilities are being changed so rapidly lately (nerfs), even recent attempts at showing that 1 exp rating > 1 strength is subject to skepticism.

My conjecture is that Strength starts off as the best +threat stat and quickly gets eclipsed after T7. Expertise is good for all 4 tanks, I just don't see why they wouldn't bathe our gear in it at the starting level (T7) unless Strength is designed to be better at the start.
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Postby knaughty » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:43 pm

Heh, If I could get a Glyph of "+80 strength while SoV is active" I'd take it in a heartbeat. But I'll settle for 80 Expertise Rating (at 80).

Part of my boredom with Inscription is that there's so few choices that it isn't even really worthwhile to do the theorycrafting unless you're bored.

Restricting the list to major glyphs that might interest Protection:

Decent
• Glyph of Righteous Defense: Very good.
• Glyph of Judgement: Nothing wrong with it.
• Glyph of Avenger's Shield: Decent, I guess. I like the current version that bounces, maybe I'll change my mind if it bounces 20 yards into the next pack. Wrath only
• Glyph of Seal of Vengeance: Nothing wrong with it. Wrath only

Meh
• Glyph of Exorcism: Will be nice if they make it work on stuff that isn't demon/undead.

Crap
• Glyph of Consecration: Breaks your rotation.
• Glyph of Spiritual Attunement: Complete rubbish. Tank more mobs, or bless yourself with Sanctuary.

Guess what? There's two good glyphs available at 70, and you have two major glyph slots. At 80 you have three slots and four choices. Hopefully someone will run the numbers to work out which is more threat: SoV or +10% to Judge. I'd probably take SoV over Judge damage if I decided I did want the AS glyph.

Minor Glyphs are pretty meh from a progression standpoint. The only three I can see that have any "in combat" effect we might be interested in are:
• Glyph of Divinity: Your Lay on Hands also grants you as much mana as it grants your target
• Glyph of Lay on Hands: Increases the mana restored by your Lay on Hands spell by 20%
• Glyph of Sense Undead: +1% damage to undead/demons.
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Postby majiben » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:54 pm

Knaughty wrote:• Glyph of Divinity: Your Lay on Hands also grants you as much mana as it grants your target
• Glyph of Lay on Hands: Increases the mana restored by your Lay on Hands spell by 20%
How do these two work when used on yourself? Would you get 240% the amount of mana normally returned? If so It would be quite nice for us as an mini divine plea.
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Postby Sonic » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:13 pm

Knaughty wrote:
Sonic wrote:Between the expertise talent and what's on the gear, how much would this glyph actually really help? The 10man T7 helm gives 30 expertise, 35 on the 25man version. Another peice here or there is bound to have some. With later upgrades offering more.

Gear has Expertise rating, not raw Expertise. The Glyph appears to be Expertise. Conversion is about 8:1 - the Glyph is thus about 80 expertise rating - as much as 2-3 pieces of Expertise rating gear.


My problem is the appear. Does someone have hard data that it's actually a straight 10 expertise and not 10 raiting? Giving how sub-par the glyphs are I'd be more inclined to think the later. But that's me.

Of the entire 5-piece set, only the Faceguard has any: 35 rating, 3.76 expertise

There's only two other slots of ilevel 213+ plate in the whole of Tier-7 that have defence rating and expertise:
• Pauldrons of Unnatural Death - 30
• Sabatons of Endurance - 38

Drop to ilevel 200 and there some gloves and a chest:
• Horn-Tipped Gauntlets - 67!
• Massive Skeletal Ribcage - 45

10 expertise from glyph
6 from talents

You still want at least 80 rating from gear just to get dodge off the table, and more hugely more to remove parry.



i226:
Boundless Ambition - 21 neck
i213:
Barricade of Eternity - 28 shield
Signet of the Impregnable Fortress - 21 ring

i200:
Gale-Proof Cloak - 21 (do i need to?)
Signet of the Accord - 29 ring

I realize those aren't plate, but we don't have anythign from T8 or T9 yet. So those should all be condicered T7? I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.
That covers a decent amount.

Sonic wrote:And seeing as the added Glyph is only usable when SoV is up, I think there are much better options.


Name one? The glyph is "5% more attacks actually connect".

Someone else already pointed out that SoV is up 100% of the time when you're actually tanking.


Anything I name is personal preferance. Honestly I might not even use the RD glyph, but again that's me. Over all I'm not really impressed with any of of the tanking based glyphs we have currently.

I suppose if you want/need the extra expertise when you start raiding then the SoV one will work. It's just that starting raids for LK aren't going to be that hard when compaired to starting BC raids. Extra point on that note, we didn't even have expertise on starting raids in BC. I can't recall exactlly when but they added in the stat around Black Temple right?

As I said, personal preferance. I'm not saying it's bad but I believe we can get what we need from gear when it comes to expertise.
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Postby knaughty » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Sonic wrote:My problem is the appear. Does someone have hard data that it's actually a straight 10 expertise and not 10 raiting? Giving how sub-par the glyphs are I'd be more inclined to think the later. But that's me.

<snip>

As I said, personal preferance. I'm not saying it's bad but I believe we can get what we need from gear when it comes to expertise.

There's a few glyphs that are godly.

• Glyph of CoH - 6th target
• Glyph of CH - 4th target
• Glyph of Holy Light - Grats AE heal.

The tanking ones (for pallies) are Meh. I'd kill for "+10% Block Value". Course, it would be somewhat OP for tankadins, about 5% would be balanced for us. But the QQ would be endless, so we won't get one at all.

I'm sort of thinking about the SoV glyph because there's not much else worth getting for PvE endgame tanking (which is what I do). I am assuming it's 10 Expertise. If it's 10 Expertise rating then it can go DIAF.

But the point stands. Yes, the SoV glyph is kinda "meh". But there's nothing better to pick. So unless you want an empty major glyph slot (or you glyph for PvP/solo) you're stuck with it.
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