Remove Advertisements

Slow vs fast weapon in WotLK

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Embher » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:48 am

Candiru wrote:
Embher wrote:SoV ticks every 3s for 15s... What are you talkinga bout SoV doign instant hit from HotR? SoR ya does bigger dmg per hit, but who cares about SoR.
HotR is an ability you use outside the seal, it has 6s cooldown. It can proc an SoV stack but it is not based on weapon dmg per hit, its independent of speed now.


SoV does X% of spelldamage * WS when you hit with a full stack.

This means that the instant attack from HotR SoV proc does more damage the slower your weapon.

Since the damage done from this is tiny, its not a big deal, however, and is probably not worth consideration.


It sounds like you are talking about SoR. SoR does a dmg per hit and it normalizes for weapon speed, meaning if you have 2 speed and it hits for 200, with a 1 speed, it will hit for 100 every 1s. WS is in the equation but the equation is for DMG PER HIT.
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=21084
See that equation in that tooltip says does MWS(..) dmg per melee attack, which makes it independent of speed.
See divide that equation by MWS and hyou get the DPS. DPS has no MWS in it.

Seal of vengeance is independent of WS.
Look:

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=31801
It does dmg over 15s based on AP/STR and spell dmg.
It's based on AP and Spell and much more on AP, which our gear has more of. SoV is our tanking seal now.
Image
Embher
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:57 am

Postby steadypal » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:52 am

well, i have heartless, and blade of savagery,, lol

2.6 speed vs 1.4 speed, i can notice the difference, slower wpn of course does more dmg

but i like the smoothness of the fast hitting wpn, idk :P
steadypal
 
Posts: 1206
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:28 pm

Postby Candiru » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:53 am

When you hit someone who has a full 5 stack of vengeance, you do small % of your spelldamage *WS as an "instant-hit damage" which isn't on the tooltip. This behaves like a SoR, but for much less damage.
Image
Candiru
 
Posts: 2479
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 12:21 pm

Postby Embher » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:55 am

Eanin wrote:A positive thing for slow weapons is that enchants will proc more often from HotR, if you're using Mongoose.


Do you mean that enchant procs will ocurr more from Hotr than from the melee attacks because it is a slow weapon?


I don't understand how slwo weapon helps with enchant proccing, considering HotR procs. Please break this down for me.
Image
Embher
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:57 am

Postby Embher » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:58 am

Candiru wrote:When you hit someone who has a full 5 stack of vengeance, you do small % of your spelldamage *WS as an "instant-hit damage" which isn't on the tooltip. This behaves like a SoR, but for much less damage.


ok, so each melee swing with SoV on npc gives very small dmg per hit. Again,
DMG per hit~=Spell*WS
DPS=DMG per hit/WS~Spell dmg only not WS
Independent again of WS... just like SoR...

We care about DPS not dmg per hit...
Image
Embher
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:57 am

Postby Candiru » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:13 am

OK, I'll make it really simple for you:


speed 1.0 sword.
speed 100.0 sword
Assume the SoV instant damage proc is worth 1dps

HotR hits every 6 seconds, and procs seals. With the first one the seal hits for 1 damage
with the second one it hits for 100 damage

Now HotR hits every 6 seconds.

So first is worth 1/6 dps
second is 100/6 dps
Image
Candiru
 
Posts: 2479
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 12:21 pm

Postby Revnger » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:56 am

So, it seems that the answer here is purely because of SotR, slow weapons, with larger base damage, are clearly the best for a tankadin.

The only viable argument against this would be initial application of SoV stacks, which could be done with a faster weapon and then a switch.
Revnger
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:57 pm

~

Postby Embher » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:08 pm

Alright, here is the compilation of points now:

Fast weapon advantages
*Judgement of light procs per hit and I am under theimpression that there is no cap every 4scd, when other people think there will cap every 4s cd.
*Ramp up argument is there but we ignore this for overall dps.

Slow weapon advantages
*Some people are convinced the HoTR instant dmg from SOV is higher with WS and HotR is every 6s so dps would be
DPS of HotR procs of seal =WS*(~Ap+~Sp)/6s
and this goes higher with WS. Though, the dmg per melee hit argument is not valid because DPS=(DMG per hit)/WS=(WS*(~Ap+~Sp)/WS=(~Ap+~Sp) and most of SoV dmg is really the dot dmg over the 15s.
*WHite dmg per hit is larger with slow weapons because it goes through the npc's block much more than fast weapon's white dmg.
*Parry reduction dmg-in on tank

Remaining things to confirm:
*Confirm the limit on Judgemetn of light procs, if there is any. ( i heard it was it limitless , wehre judgement of wis had a limit every 4s) If there is a good limit on Judgement of light procs, I will rest my case for mitigation with fast weapons. If not, in terms of mitigation, i'm sticking to fast weapon and ignoring any small difference in dps.
*I myself want to confirm this instant dmg proc from HotR, and how big it is.
Image
Embher
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:57 am

Postby Revnger » Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:49 pm

Well, which of these two the accurate description of the talent?


Hammer of the Righteous
6% of base mana Melee Range
Instant cast 6 sec cooldown
Requires One-Handed Melee Weapon
Hammer the current target and up to 2 additional nearby targets, causing 3 times your main hand damage per second as Holy damage.


Hammer of the Righteous
6% of base mana Melee Range
Instant cast 6 sec cooldown
Requires One-Handed Melee Weapon
Hammer the current target and up to 2 additional nearby targets, causing 100% of weapon damage as Holy damage. This ability causes high threat.

If it's the first one, then weapon speed does not matter, if it's the second one then slower weapons would most likely do more damage. I am guessing that the first one is the "redone" HotR, and the second is the way it was before they redid it last update?
Revnger
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:57 pm

Postby Embher » Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:56 pm

Yes, I know, this is waht I have been telling them.
but we all know that the SoV seal procs off the HotR and
THEY are reporting that SoV does a flat dmg on each HotR hit on top of the HotR dmg, besides applying the SoV stack on that HotR hit.
SoV normally just does a dot effect over 15s and does not give dmg per hit, but they are claiming taht the SoV does a dmg per HotR hit and that teh dmg is ~WS(~AP+~SP) and with a flat 6s cd, the DPS of this isolated dmg is ~WS(~AP+~SP)/6s and WS stays in the DPS equation.

Go figure... I need confirmation that there is indeed a flat dmg of SoV per HotR proc and how big it is and if it changes with WS. If the dmg is negligible, it does not matter.

Also HotR is not NOT dependent on WS.
Last edited by Embher on Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Embher
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:57 am

Postby DamienVrice » Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:57 pm

Yeah not only is the first one the correct one of the two but at this point it now has been or will be changed, haven't checked ptr recently to being X4 instead of X3 your dps.
70 Tankadin - DamienVrice
Doomhammer Server
DamienVrice
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:52 am

Previous

Return to WotLK

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest