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Divine Guardian

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Divine Guardian

Postby Revnger » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:17 pm

This looks to me to be a great talent to have, it is indeed situational, but as a MT Pally in a 9/9 BT 5/5 MH and just into Sunwell guild, it seems that it will prove invaluable. It may even provide a "reason" for you to be in a fight as an offtank when only one tank is needed.

Examples of bosses we are to do next

Kalecgos
It's a tank switch fight and as you switch out as enrage is hitting, you pop this and save a shit ton of damage to the other tanks, and the entire raid. You may be able to mitigate tens of thousands of damage at this point.

Brutalus
Again, tank switch fight where you switch and your entire side of the raid is taking a lot of damage, which you can mitigate.

Felmyst
As the tank for phase 2, this should be available for a couple of uses on Phase 1 to help mitigate damage.

Looking back though BT, as a flame tank on Illidan, this would be awesome to have to pop several times during the rest of the fight, most importantly during one of Illidans enrages after 30%, as MT on Illy won't have defensives up for each of his enrages. Granted, you can get through without, as many have, but this is a big helper, I guaranteed many a MT has died during an Illidan enrage, let alone the shadowfiend'd person.

Think of RoS, I tank on the way in, and part of phase 1 and a Warrior tanks Phase 2 and 3, this could be used on either of those, particularly the end of Phase 3.

With multiple tanks on Supremus, this could mitigate damage several times during the long fight.

As a soaker on Mother Sharaz this could be used twice, once early and then again during her soft enrage.

As rogue tank on Illidari Council you could use this several times during the fight during his stealth cycles, where spike damage is highest.

Seems like more than half the encounters in "endgame" this could tremendously mitigate damage and often at crucial times, perhaps even allowing the raid to carry one less healer. Yet, when I look at builds on this site, I see very very few that pick it up.
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Postby Amarant_Pally » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:23 pm

No encounter to date is balanced around this ability (although it's uses can be applied).

No encounter in the future should be, either.
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Postby Revnger » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:25 pm

actually, now that I think about it, you could use this on RoS when you first get in and another tank is under him in Phase 1, and have it back up again for Phase 3.
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Postby Amarant_Pally » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:29 pm

I think it would be better saved for an Enrage during P1.

Although my guild is debating where or not we'll actually see an enrage after the patch hits...
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Postby Joanadark » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:47 pm

By the way, because I havn't seen this carified anywhere, when you use Divine Guardian you, the paladin, do not actually take any of the damage you are siphoning off the raid. Your combat log and SCT says Immune.
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Postby Embher » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:58 pm

I am on PTR, i did take this talent and did confirm that it only works with Divine shield and not Divine protection, which is desired as a tank.

However, I did notice that I could not use DIvine prot after I used Divine shield. The cds are linked, still, despite rumors saying otherwise.

In tank switching , are you not concerned losing your ability to Divine protection after you use DIvine shield in previous phase for another tank?

Could this only work if the phases are longer than 4 minutes? Cd i know is 4 minutes with prot talent Sacred duty.

I see someone say about using it in RoS phase 1 and having them both back up by phase 3. I guess it depends on if you are comfortable using it and not having Divine prot for the next 4 minutes of the fight, whatever that might be. Though, I think your first priority is making sure you still alive and other tanks use their abilities to self protect themselves.

I think this talent is more for Holy paladins who spec mostly holy and some prot, which is good spec for pve and pvp. They can pop DIvine shield during a bad taime for a tank to protect them.

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Postby Racolus » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:02 pm

First, the mechanism of how it works is already in the sticky above, it even stated how it works with warrior's SW, IIRC.

Second, it is great as a ST tool. Unfortunately, you admitted your role of ST by talent selection when you do this, and, honestly, many of us just don't wanna do it.
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Postby majiben » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:05 pm

Don't forget the naj fight. It can used to pop the bubble without actually having everyone topped off.
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Postby Droaeth-The sha'tar » Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:46 am

And GBB, used on Phase 2 to mitigate some damage from the person with fel rage
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Postby Amarant_Pally » Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:50 am

Droaeth-The sha'tar wrote:And GBB, used on Phase 2 to mitigate some damage from the person with fel rage


Eek...I forgot about this.

I usually tank BB first, and DS off my stacks (depending how many) during the first Fel-Enrage. If an easy target is picked first (lolRogues), and then a hard target 2nd (lolMages), this might not be optimal. ;)

Oooh, but a question: Does Gurtogg crush during Fel-enrage? Because the removal of crushes would make the enrages all-around easier, anyway.

Edit: Answered my own question looking at a WWS parse. BB does crush during fel-enrage. Having these removed will make our Mages happy!
Last edited by Amarant_Pally on Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mithos » Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:54 am

Well....there will be encounters where you will NOT be tanking 100% of the time in WotLK surely? Kalecgos, Brut, Kil'Jaeden (the other Sunwell fights depend on choice of tank setup, but these fights have set periods during which you are tanking, Eredar Twins is fairly random and you want to save it for bubbling off Shadow stacks). What about 4 Horseman 25 man with a 3 tank cycle? (I don't know how this works atm so don't shoot me :p). I don't plan to pigdeon hole myself into a Soak or Off tank role, but I love the idea of this talent so I plan to take it as a flavour one if there's enough spare points floating around in the final talent trees.
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Postby Whait » Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:26 am

to me taking this will only depend on raid content at 80, if it will help in a fight then ill take it if its just a "nice" thing to have then i will spend the points elsewhere
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Postby Revnger » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:42 am

Racolus wrote:First, the mechanism of how it works is already in the sticky above, it even stated how it works with warrior's SW, IIRC.

Second, it is great as a ST tool. Unfortunately, you admitted your role of ST by talent selection when you do this, and, honestly, many of us just don't wanna do it.


Well, quite frankly that's a lame excuse. If you're worth having in a guild you do whatever you can to see the guild succeed and progress. Sometimes that means MT, sometime OT, sometimes ST, and sometimes it means heal.

For example, if you're a Pally tank, and been on an Illidan kill, you either healed the whole encounter or tanked flames, and as soon as the flames died you should have switched out sword and shield for healing ones and helped out with healing. Paladin>spec.
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Postby DamienVrice » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:39 am

Revnger wrote:Well, quite frankly that's a lame excuse. If you're worth having in a guild you do whatever you can to see the guild succeed and progress. Sometimes that means MT, sometime OT, sometimes ST, and sometimes it means heal.

For example, if you're a Pally tank, and been on an Illidan kill, you either healed the whole encounter or tanked flames, and as soon as the flames died you should have switched out sword and shield for healing ones and helped out with healing. Paladin>spec.


I honestly don't reply much on the boards. I tend to be a bit of a lurker and just read them constantly but this last statement required some kind of response. I have never once in all our Illidan attempts tanked either the flames or healed the encounter.

I'm totally confused as to why you would think those would be our only options. I tank Illidan himself every single time. after the first 3 times we went after him I stopped getting Sheared period and due to his dual wielding nature threat is pretty much a joke.

Heck he's one of my favorite fights these days just because he actually requires me to work for it a little (at least till 3.0 when shears are gone). If that really is your idea of all a pally can do on Illidan then yeah Divine Guardian sounds awesome for you as you've already decided all you are is an OT.
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Postby Revnger » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:48 am

Didn't the devs just remove Shear, or will with 3.0, specifically so that Pallys and Druids CAN tank Illidan? I mean, of all the bosses in BC, isn't that the one specific ability they pulled, specifically for this purpose?

How exactly does a Pally tank avoid shear atm?, back out of range when he starts casting? bubble dance?


EDIT.....
Wow, just reead a section on these forums on it.... guess I never looked past the strat guides and videos we used to learn the fight... Warriors only is all I heard / read.

To be honest though... I get a rush out of tanking flames, no question it's a harder job than tanking Illidan.


Regardless though, it doesn't change the point. Any tank stuck on "I'm MT or I'm not coming" needs a lesson in teamwork, takes 25 to kill a raid boss.
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