Agility in WotLK

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Eanin » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:13 pm

Belloc wrote:
Tronden wrote:Like Stamina :D (now that Stamina == Threat)

This really stood out for me. If we're going to be getting agility, it'll be through gemming or enchants -- it's not likely to be on tanking gear.

So, agility offers us a small amount of dodge, armor, and crit.

Wouldn't the better option be stamina? I can only imagine that stamina would provide more survivability with the added benefit of spell power.

Of course, I haven't done the math... but do I really need to? It seems that stamina would do everything that you want agility to do, except it would do it better.


It really only comes up with enchants or gems, and we don't usually have a straight 1:1 option there.
Image
Image
User avatar
Eanin
 
Posts: 858
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:47 am

Postby roosevelt » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:28 pm

The real threat value for str would be: 2.53(ap) + 0.2

If ap is 0.54 then str would be ~1.566 tps (1.45x the value for = item points)

1 str * 1.15 (divine strength) * 1.1 (kings) * 2 ap/str = 2.53 ap

plus the TPS from ShoR

1.265/2 block value * 1.9(RF multiplier) * 1/6sec (ShoR CD) = 0.20029


Opps good catch, I was thinking 25% from both but then realized it seems to do 15% then 10% for 26.5% total
Last edited by roosevelt on Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:40 pm, edited 5 times in total.
roosevelt
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:31 pm

Postby Eanin » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:30 pm

Isn't Divine Strength a 15% bonus?
Image
Image
User avatar
Eanin
 
Posts: 858
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:47 am

Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:31 pm

It is.
Image
I am not allowed to seduce the abyssal's lunar mate.
User avatar
Snake-Aes
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 15547
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:15 am
Location: Thorns

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:44 pm

I don't think anyone is arguing that Agi is better than strength. Eventually though you need some "B" quality stats because continuing to stack "A" stats on gear makes their item level too high, and it becomes less efficient. We know we aren't going to scale very well with haste, so maybe crit will be a scaling path for us, and if so, then Agi compares pretty well to crit rating.

That's just speculation though, either way it's hard to call Agi a bad stat, but in most situations there is something better that should be used.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9671
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:48 pm

Fridmarr wrote:I don't think anyone is arguing that Agi is better than strength. Eventually though you need some "B" quality stats because continuing to stack "A" stats on gear makes their item level too high, and it becomes less efficient. We know we aren't going to scale very well with haste, so maybe crit will be a scaling path for us, and if so, then Agi compares pretty well to crit rating.

That's just speculation though, either way it's hard to call Agi a bad stat, but in most situations there is something better that should be used.
T's not bad indeed, but I don't think there will be a point where, from a gearing perspective, you'll be better off getting agility instead of raw powers. I do love that strength of earth totem longtime. It's so full of strength and agility to pump my belf up with.
Image
I am not allowed to seduce the abyssal's lunar mate.
User avatar
Snake-Aes
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 15547
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:15 am
Location: Thorns

Postby Tronden » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:48 pm

Snake-Aes wrote:
Eanin wrote:
Ulushnar wrote:Um Agility only affects white crit, so it's not as good a threat boost as Strength.


It also affects Hammer of the Righteous and maybe Avenger's Shield. It will affect Shield of Righteousness as well at 75.
It's strict to melee attacks, can we tell they all are based on melee crit?


I think one of the changes in 3.x is that both crit and haste apply to both spell and melee now, am I wrong? Not that this changes the course of this conversation what-so-ever, I just wanted to get clarity on this particular aspect.
Tronden of Runetotem (US)
Guildmaster <Guardians of Azeroth>
Image
User avatar
Tronden
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:11 am

Postby Eanin » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:49 pm

Tronden wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:
Eanin wrote:
Ulushnar wrote:Um Agility only affects white crit, so it's not as good a threat boost as Strength.


It also affects Hammer of the Righteous and maybe Avenger's Shield. It will affect Shield of Righteousness as well at 75.
It's strict to melee attacks, can we tell they all are based on melee crit?


I think one of the changes in 3.x is that both crit and haste apply to both spell and melee now, am I wrong? Not that this changes the course of this conversation what-so-ever, I just wanted to get clarity on this particular aspect.


Crit rating does, but Agility only applies to melee crit and intellect only applies to spell crit.
Image
Image
User avatar
Eanin
 
Posts: 858
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:47 am

Postby steadypal » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:49 pm

how do you like mongoose enchant then? 120agi is decent
steadypal
 
Posts: 1206
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:28 pm

Postby Eanin » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:53 pm

steadypal wrote:how do you like mongoose enchant then? 120agi is decent


That's actually part of my thinking. I'm debating between Potency, Mongoose and Crusader for my weapon. Mongoose is an average of 30agi, and that's assuming it only procs off of white hits. If it procs off of Hammer of the Righteous, too, then I'll probably put it on my Brutalizer and put Potency or Crusader on my Blade of Infamy.
Image
Image
User avatar
Eanin
 
Posts: 858
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:47 am

Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:54 pm

Tronden wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:
Eanin wrote:
Ulushnar wrote:Um Agility only affects white crit, so it's not as good a threat boost as Strength.


It also affects Hammer of the Righteous and maybe Avenger's Shield. It will affect Shield of Righteousness as well at 75.
It's strict to melee attacks, can we tell they all are based on melee crit?


I think one of the changes in 3.x is that both crit and haste apply to both spell and melee now, am I wrong? Not that this changes the course of this conversation what-so-ever, I just wanted to get clarity on this particular aspect.
That's crit and hit and haste ratings. Crit provided by int is still spell only, and crit provided by agility is still melee only. Don't trust solely on me on that though. I forgot the source of that.
Image
I am not allowed to seduce the abyssal's lunar mate.
User avatar
Snake-Aes
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 15547
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:15 am
Location: Thorns

Postby Robbert » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:57 pm

Eanin wrote:Agility then can be basically considered:

0.83 dodge rating
0.97 crit rating
2.2 armor

All in one stat.


I think this will be something to seriously consider when looking at gemming/enchanting for dodge rating. As it seems dodge rating and agility have the same 'cost' per point, then I could easily make a case for gemming/enchanting for Agility over Dodge. Sure you get a little less avoidance, but you gain a small boost to mitigation and a decent boost to threat in exchange.

Eanin wrote:Isn't Divine Strength a 15% bonus?


Since Strength and Agility are the same gem color, I'd be much more inclined to gear into Strength for it's added threat and mitigation/EH value, and even then I'd likely go with Str/Stam options where possible.

As for enchants, we've seen enchants have large variability in item budget. I haven't looked over the available enchants yet, but if an item slot offers a nice Agility option then I'd definately consider it.
Image
Robbert
 
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:34 pm

Postby steadypal » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:07 pm

Eanin wrote:
steadypal wrote:how do you like mongoose enchant then? 120agi is decent


That's actually part of my thinking. I'm debating between Potency, Mongoose and Crusader for my weapon. Mongoose is an average of 30agi, and that's assuming it only procs off of white hits. If it procs off of Hammer of the Righteous, too, then I'll probably put it on my Brutalizer and put Potency or Crusader on my Blade of Infamy.


well on ptr i got hotr to proc mongoose, i then just did autoattacks only, and got 3 procs within 1 minute, then mana upped and did hotr and autoattacks only for 1 min and had no procs LOL so it is still a proc,,,


and we are supposed to get roughly 4% dodge right? so DR, i was barely getting 3% and 3% and a little more with kings on, so idk....


still 3% dodge, and ya i was getting about 5.32% crit with kings 4.83 crit w/o kings
steadypal
 
Posts: 1206
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:28 pm

Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:27 pm

The one thing this does show, is that we would, in the long run benefit fairly well if they were putting Agi on our gear instead of dodge rating.

Eventually, you still run into Diminishing returns on avoidance on either stat, but we get other things besides avoidance from Agi and it benefits from Kings, while Dodge rating only does avoidance.

For example:

Lets say at level 80 you have 280 Dodge Rating.

It will add 7.116 % Dodge prior to diminishing returns

If instead, we had 280 Agi, we would get 5.376% Dodge and Melee Crit plus 560 AC

Add in Kings and we would get 5.914% Dodge and Melee Crit plus 616 AC

All of this of course prior to diminishing returns. The key is, that we have more room to stack Agi than we do Dodge since it returns slightly less avoidance per point.

Given expected gear levels at Nax, we are probably only losing about 1% avoidance if that was the case, meanwhile we would of gained more crit and AC...

Effectively, as the gear continues to improve, because of the way diminishing returns works, the difference in avoidance benefit between Dodge and Agi gets smaller as we gear up...

Kinda makes you wish they would abandon Dodge Rating on our gear and put AGI on instead.
Garath.Gorefiend
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:07 pm

Postby Rasmfrackn » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:41 pm

Garath.Gorefiend wrote:Kinda makes you wish they would abandon Dodge Rating on our gear and put AGI on instead.


It seems like a pretty strong argument to at least gem for agi wherever you were thinking about gemming for dodge. Even now it's almost true, except the crit benefits are much lower.

It should affect all abilities that are melee or ranged attacks, right? If it crits at 2x, I'd expect agi to affect it... HotR, ShoR, judge, AS... those should crit with agi, right?
Rasmfrackn
Dwarf Paladin
Icecrown Server
Eng/Scribe/Masochist
User avatar
Rasmfrackn
 
Posts: 1014
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:11 pm

PreviousNext

Return to WotLK

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest