Agility in WotLK

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Postby Tronden » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:22 pm

Like Stamina :D (now that Stamina == Threat)
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Postby Chevalier » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:36 pm

Agility is good for us because of our super-low agi to avoidance ratio, but strength is better so it isn't even a consideration for gems anymore. But yah, even in TBC agility is not a bad stat.
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Postby Eanin » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:44 pm

Chevalier wrote:Agility is good for us because of our super-low agi to avoidance ratio, but strength is better so it isn't even a consideration for gems anymore. But yah, even in TBC agility is not a bad stat.


Strength is better as a threat stat, but the question I'm raising is, given both the mitigation and threat agility provides, is strength better overall? Strength also provides +BV, so that needs to be taken into consideration. The question then is, do the higher threat and lower mitigation of strength always outweigh the lower threat and higher mitigation of agility?
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Postby ulushnar » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:45 pm

Um Agility only affects white crit, so it's not as good a threat boost as Strength.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:46 pm

Ulushnar wrote:Um Agility only affects white crit, so it's not as good a threat boost as Strength.
True that. It's even less worthy as it could be crit-wise ._.

K guys discussion is kinda over, carry on, just nod and smile, hey mr shaman, what do you think you are doing? put that strength of earth totem back on the works!
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Postby Eanin » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:47 pm

Ulushnar wrote:Um Agility only affects white crit, so it's not as good a threat boost as Strength.


It also affects Hammer of the Righteous and maybe Avenger's Shield. It will affect Shield of Righteousness as well at 75.

Econ came up with the following numbers at 80 (from page 25 of the stickied thread):

1 dps = 2.12 tps
1 sp = 0.53 tps
1 ap =0.54 tps
1 hit rating = 0.63 tps
1 crit rating = 0.45 tps
1 sbv = 0.60 tps
1 expertise rating = 0.49 tps
1 strength = 1.05 tps
1 agility = 0.40 tps
1 haste = 0.08 tps
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:48 pm

Eanin wrote:
Ulushnar wrote:Um Agility only affects white crit, so it's not as good a threat boost as Strength.


It also affects Hammer of the Righteous and maybe Avenger's Shield. It will affect Shield of Righteousness as well at 75.
It's strict to melee attacks, can we tell they all are based on melee crit?
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Postby Eanin » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:49 pm

Snake-Aes wrote:
Eanin wrote:
Ulushnar wrote:Um Agility only affects white crit, so it's not as good a threat boost as Strength.


It also affects Hammer of the Righteous and maybe Avenger's Shield. It will affect Shield of Righteousness as well at 75.
It's strict to melee attacks, can we tell they all are based on melee crit?


That seems to be the working hypothesis in the stickied thread.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:50 pm

Eanin wrote:
Ulushnar wrote:Um Agility only affects white crit, so it's not as good a threat boost as Strength.


It also affects Hammer of the Righteous and maybe Avenger's Shield. It will affect Shield of Righteousness as well at 75.

Econ came up with the following numbers at 80 (from page 25 of the stickied thread):

1 dps = 2.12 tps
1 sp = 0.53 tps
1 ap =0.54 tps
1 hit rating = 0.63 tps
1 crit rating = 0.45 tps
1 sbv = 0.60 tps
1 expertise rating = 0.49 tps
1 strength = 1.05 tps
1 agility = 0.40 tps
1 haste = 0.08 tps
That str value seems off. If 1 ap is 0,54 tps, then, before scaling, 1 str should be 1,08 tps. Add in the 26% scaling from D-STR/kings and you're looking at 1,36tps per str.
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Postby roosevelt » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:56 pm

I guess it depends on your avoidance levels and block chance but strength with kings, divine strength and redbout gives fairly sizable mitigation through block as well as the superior threat. As posted above stam is also a tanking stat that functions as a (lesser) threat stat as well now.

The armor from agility may be a very small amount but armor is a very valuable stat for EH and nearly impossible to gear for. From what I've read people seem to think end game tanking will be less focused on EH and avoidance/mitigation will be more important.


I think that agility will be a well rounded stat that is good when gearing up but specialization usually wins in the end, especially once you have backup gear that you can gem/enchant for threat.
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Postby Eanin » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Snake-Aes wrote:
Eanin wrote:
Ulushnar wrote:Um Agility only affects white crit, so it's not as good a threat boost as Strength.


It also affects Hammer of the Righteous and maybe Avenger's Shield. It will affect Shield of Righteousness as well at 75.

Econ came up with the following numbers at 80 (from page 25 of the stickied thread):

1 dps = 2.12 tps
1 sp = 0.53 tps
1 ap =0.54 tps
1 hit rating = 0.63 tps
1 crit rating = 0.45 tps
1 sbv = 0.60 tps
1 expertise rating = 0.49 tps
1 strength = 1.05 tps
1 agility = 0.40 tps
1 haste = 0.08 tps
That str value seems off. If 1 ap is 0,54 tps, then, before scaling, 1 str should be 1,08 tps. Add in the 26% scaling from D-STR/kings and you're looking at 1,36tps per str.


Good point. He must not be including talents or kings. One would need to add kings for agility too, then, making it 0.44 tps, which is still about one-third of 1.36.
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Postby roosevelt » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:57 pm

Snake-Aes wrote:That str value seems off. If 1 ap is 0,54 tps, then, before scaling, 1 str should be 1,08 tps. Add in the 26% scaling from D-STR/kings and you're looking at 1,36tps per str.


Str will also add block value which will boost ShoR
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Postby Eanin » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:57 pm

roosevelt wrote:I guess it depends on your avoidance levels and block chance but strength with kings, divine strength and redbout gives fairly sizable mitigation through block as well as the superior threat. As posted above stam is also a tanking stat that functions as a (lesser) threat stat as well now.

The armor from agility may be a very small amount but armor is a very valuable stat for EH and nearly impossible to gear for. From what I've read people seem to think end game tanking will be less focused on EH and avoidance/mitigation will be more important.


I think that agility will be a well rounded stat that is good when gearing up but specialization usually wins in the end, especially once you have backup gear that you can gem/enchant for threat.


I'd be interested to see the relative mitigation values of strength and agility. I imagine it would be lower the harder something hits, like with all +BV.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:04 pm

roosevelt wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:That str value seems off. If 1 ap is 0,54 tps, then, before scaling, 1 str should be 1,08 tps. Add in the 26% scaling from D-STR/kings and you're looking at 1,36tps per str.


Str will also add block value which will boost ShoR
I'm trusting that was accounted for when the table of tps per point was created. If not, that only gives it more value.
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Postby Belloc » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:10 pm

Tronden wrote:Like Stamina :D (now that Stamina == Threat)

This really stood out for me. If we're going to be getting agility, it'll be through gemming or enchants -- it's not likely to be on tanking gear.

So, agility offers us a small amount of dodge, armor, and crit.

Wouldn't the better option be stamina? I can only imagine that stamina would provide more survivability with the added benefit of spell power.

Of course, I haven't done the math... but do I really need to? It seems that stamina would do everything that you want agility to do, except it would do it better.
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