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My synopsis of Paladin glyphs. (TL;DR: CRAP.)

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Postby maximilliann » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:36 am

May I add that for the consecration one, this is actually usefull for Ret pallies because it add an extra 2 seconds for another special attack. Also consecration can now be in the DPS cycle because of the mana return of judgement of the wise and also of judgement of wisdom if necessary. I was able to sustain DPS for 9 minutes on a target dummy using judgement, divine storm, crusader strike and consecration without running out of mana.
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Re: My synopsis of Paladin glyphs. (TL;DR: CRAP.)

Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:56 am

Warcraft wrote:In alphabetical order...

Glyph of Avenger's Shield
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 50
Use: Your Avenger's Shield hits 2 fewer targets, but for 100% more damage.
CRAP, and my most passionately hated Paladin glyph because so many people are convinced it's "not bad." I've said it before and I'll say it again. My ability to tag or snare 3 targets instead of 1 can save a raid. My ability to generate double the threat from something that only accounts for 1-2% of my total damage will NOT save a raid. Remove the target penalty. Better yet, make it pull more targets and cause less damage.


With Glyphe the (instant cast!) shield is the highest threat move we have against a single target. If you think that is bad and you don't need 1 Target threat: Don't take it. As simple as that.

Glyph of Avenging Wrath
CRAP. Hammer of Wrath is to finish off runners. What kind of idiot pops Avenging Wrath when the target is running away?


Dude! Wake up. Really. Are you kidding me? Come one. That is a RET Glyphe for RET to use in PvE combat against bosses. 3 Sek CD Hammer instant Cast with +50% Crit (Talent) WILL rockt the boat.


Glyph of Cleansing
Use: Reduces the mana cost of your Cleanse and Purify spells by 20%.
CRAP. Nobody cares about 20% off the mana cost of something that costs close to no mana anyway.


Now does it? Do play PvP and come again with you costs no mana..

Glyph of Consecration
Use: Increases the duration and cooldown of Consecration by 2 sec.
CRAP. Why would I purposely make a move have LESS sync with my rotation?


Again. Please.. think for a moment. It skrews youre rotation. Now that is bad. There is a very long thread here where one shows how it will work PERFECT with his threat cycle and increases his TPS and TPM a lot.

And for Ret with a totaly different cycle it can be great too.

Glyph of Crusader Strike
CRAP. How much use does this glyph have on bosses?


Are you stupid? I mean honestly now. The best PvP Ret Glype and you start about PvE Boss fight. You look at the PvE Ret one (Hammer of Wrath) and complain it sucks in PvP.. just look where it is meant to be used. 20 Sec Stun with 7 Sec duration means LOTS of extra Burst in PvP with that glyphe. Nobody is ever going to use this in PvE anyhow.

Glyph of Divinity
CRAP. Are you suggesting I waste a major glyph slot for 1950 mana every 20 minutes?


You? Yes. Mr. Holy Paladin that WILL use it so you get the 12 Sek of extra Armor? Maybe. A little weak you're right. But if one uses it on every boss fight it is not that bad.

The spell costs 0 Mana, but gives back 1950 Mana. That is a lot for a Holy Paladin.

If you are no PvE Holy, don't think about it.

Glyph of Exorcism
FUN KILLER. Effect is potent enough but a major glyph slot for an Undead spell?


Daemon too. But I agree, not very potent. Naxx is full of undead, but others (Shaman, Warrior, Rogue) are anyhow interrupting.. The glyphe was in before the big change with HoJ interrupt. I think they change this.

Glyph of Flash of Light
CRAP. The HoT doesn't roll. What kind of Paladin only casts Flash of Light every 15 seconds? Only the kind who isn't Holy and would not use healing glyphs to begin with...

PvP Ret could use this. But I agree is to week now. Was good with 50%/200% HoT.

Sunwell Paladins do not use FoL in a Boss fight. So for them it could be a thing. Wait for Proc of Sacred Shield +50% crit active, then FoL with about 90% Crit Chance. HoT will tick very high then for virtually no mana. But still to weak right now.

Glyph of Hammer of Justice
CRUTCH. Abilities that actually utilize multiple ranks should not go unupgraded for 2 expansions and 26 levels. Make this baseline, get rid of the glyph.


They could make ALL Glyphes baseline. For this, only PvP interesting. PvE anyhow a lot of classes can stun and stun does trigger DR for other Stun abilitys..

Glyph of Hammer of Wrath
CRAP. This is too little for a major slot. It's arguably little enough to be minor.


Only useful for PvP (not Arena, PvP). But even then not that good.

Glyph of Holy Light
GOOD. Possibly our best. So good that I'm almost ashamed to point out that this is using glyphs as a viability crutch at it's finest.


Oh wow, you found one you like.

Glyph of Judgement
Use: Your Judgements deal 10% more damage.
GOOD. 'Nuff said.


Well, not bad. Not great.

Glyph of Lay on Hands
BORING. I get it, minors aren't supposed to be useful. But are they supposed to be no fun, too? Give me something that works more than once every 20 minutes.


At lot better then the druid one where you bear is white now.. I do like it as a minor for PvE Prot Paladin.

Glyph of Righteous Defense
FAIR, in more than one meaning. Useful but not required, and is completely on par with the other taunt glyphs.


Great that all taunt is the same. Useful for fights where you NEED taunt to work 100%.

[quoe]Glyph of Seal of Blood
CRAP. The concept is interesting. SoB is the mana starved damage dealer's seal. But how many Retribution Paladins still care about mana?


Going all out (Conseceration + Holy Wrath + Exorzism and so on) will still drain you.

Glyph of Seal of Command
Use: Increases the chance of dealing Seal of Command damage by 20%.
GOOD? This one seems good but I can't tell for sure.


Good. Brings the damage on paar with SoB. For Ret PvP that are using Command anyhow great way to more dps.

Glyph of Seal of Light
GOOD. 5% helaing increase is quite potent, possibly even too potent.


Yes, is good.

Glyph of Seal of Righteousness
CRAP, and CONFUSING. SoR has lost it's place not that SoV is the tanking seal, and this glyph is not helping. This glyph is both pointless and too weak.


Shockadin. Nuff said.

Glyph of Seal of Vengeance
POTENT, but extremely BORING. If you're going to make a major glyph strong enough to be borderline required, please make it more interesting than a flat stat increase.


?? I want the +10% BC Glyphe of the warriors. Paladin is FUN and I don't really need FUN glyphes. Good ones will do just fine.

Glyph of Seal of Wisdom
FAIR. Even though it's not always needed, this is potent enough that I could see Holy Paladins re-glyphing for it on some encounters.


Which is great, right? More Heal or more Mana, you can decide. Great Stuff.

Glyph of Sense Undead
OVERPOWERED. No, seriously. This is as good as a minor glyph gets. It's actually beneficial.


1% against like everything in Naxx? Thank you.

Glyph of Spiritual Attunement
POTENT, but QUESTIONABLE. This glyph provides and exceptional amount of return. But the question is, do we need it anymore?


You'll finde out. If you have Manaprobs get Benediction instead of seal of the pure. Or just a glyphe instead of the 10% extra Judge Damage. You decide if you want to re-specc or re-glyphe.

Glyph of the Wise
GOOD, and SMART. Very nice minor. If you're using Seal of Wisdom, chances are you don't have much mana to splurge.


Prot = bad. Shockadin = fair.

Glyph of Turn Evil
Use: Reduces the casting time of your Turn Evil spell by 100%.
FUN KILLER. See Glyph of Exorcism.


Great for PvP. Warlocks, Warlockspets and one DK Spec all Insta-Fear? Nice.
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Re: My synopsis of Paladin glyphs. (TL;DR: CRAP.)

Postby Garwin » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:58 am

Warcraft wrote:In alphabetical order...

<snip>



your entire post doesn't seem to truely consider PVP viability at all

although your quite right in alot of what you say, far too many of those glyphs are major when they should be minor

example :

Glyph of Crusader Strike
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Your Crusader strike deals 20% more damage when your target is incapacitated or stunned.
CRAP. How much use does this glyph have on bosses?

total PVP winner 20% more on crusader stike is great news for the PVP stun burst fraternity

Glyph of Avenging Wrath
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 70
Use: Reduces the cooldown of your Hammer of Wrath spell by 50% while Avenging Wrath is active.
CRAP. Hammer of Wrath is to finish off runners. What kind of idiot pops Avenging Wrath when the target is running away?

again .. it's the wings + stun burst PVPer that will use wing to start combat, stun burst .. get there opponent to about 30% withing that 6/7 second gap (actually it's more like a 5.5 or 4.5 gap because of GCD) and then use HoW to finish the job over the next few seconds.

but again your right .. alot of them should be minor (or indeed not even exist). Who the hell cares about mana costs for single target buffs or duration increases on selfbuffs when in PVP you'll die or be purged of any buffs before you refresh them (or will just use the group one anyway because it's free during the PVP prep minute)
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Postby Warcraft » Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:46 am

Sharlos wrote:You know the blessing of wisdom and might ones are available from level fifteen. They are leveling glyphs, before you get the great versions, before you have reagents to worry about, having double durations while leveling isn't that bad.

Leveling has nothing to do with glyphs. Glyph of Holy Light and Glyph of Judgement are both below level 10. All that glyph levels are reflective of are the levels you get the abilities they enhance.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:56 am

All I ask you to do, Warcraft, is to evaluate those glyphs in the realms they are intended for when you post it. OF COURSE Crusader strike glyph is crap for us. We don't even have Crusader strike!

PvP glyphs are for pvp. PvE glyphs are for PvE. Ret Glyphs are for ret, Prot glyphs are for prot.
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Postby Sharlos » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:01 am

Warcraft wrote:
Sharlos wrote:You know the blessing of wisdom and might ones are available from level fifteen. They are leveling glyphs, before you get the great versions, before you have reagents to worry about, having double durations while leveling isn't that bad.

Leveling has nothing to do with glyphs. Glyph of Holy Light and Glyph of Judgement are both below level 10. All that glyph levels are reflective of are the levels you get the abilities they enhance.


What on earth gave you that idea?

In what situation are you going to be self buffing BoW/M? When you're soling, not raiding/pvping. In other words when you are leveling your character.
Every other profession has things they can use while leveling, inscription is certainly no different, no matter how much you'd prefer otherwise.

There are more than just PvE Protection Raiders who play this game, you should try to not lose sight of that.
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Postby honorshammer » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:02 am

This is Part 7 of my 8 part series called "Preparing Your Tankadin for 3.0"

http://honorscode.blogspot.com/2008/10/ ... neral.html

I released Part 5 today. http://honorscode.blogspot.com/2008/10/ ... 30_10.html

In an EXCLUSIVE preview to Maintankadin, I will give you Part 7: Inscription and Glyphs since it's germain to the topic at hand. This will not appear on the blog until Sunday morning.

Enjoy!

With the release of Patch 3.0, Blizzard is opening up the new Profession of Inscription, and one of the items produced by Inscription are Glyphs.

Glyphs are added to your spell book and change certain aspects of your spells.

You can have 3 Major and 3 Minor Glyphs.

I want to examine the currently available Glyphs for Paladins and give some tentative recommendations. Blizzard has recently announced they are going to reevaluate Glyphs so we could see some changes, but I think it's safe to assume that what we have no is what we will get in Patch 3.0.

Glyphs seem incredibly situational. I could see wanting to change Glyphs often depending on my role and the particular encounter I'm fighting.

Right now, I'd say my Glyphs would be

Major:Glyph of Spiritual Attunement, Glyph of Avenger's Shield, Glyph of Judgement,
Minor: Glyph of Sense Undead, Glyph of Lay On Hands. Glyph of Blessing of Kings

Major Glyphs

Glyph of Avenger's Shield
Use: Your Avenger's Shield hits 2 fewer targets, but for 100% more damage.

This looks like a Main Tank Glyph for someone who is doing more single target tanking rather than multi-target.

Glyph of Avenging Wrath
Use: Reduces the cooldown of your Hammer of Wrath spell by 50% while Avenging Wrath is active.

This seems more like a PVP Glyph to me.

Glyph of Cleansing
Use: Reduces the mana cost of your Cleanse and Purify spells by 20%.

This is cool, but usually your main Cleanser is going to be a Holy Paladin.

Glyph of Consecration Use: Increases the duration and cooldown of Consecration by 2 sec.

It does not increase the damage. It does the same damage but over more time. I'm not really sure what the point of this Glyph is, and as a bonus it messes up your nice 96969 rotation. I recommend against this Glyph

Glyph of Crusader Strike Use: Your Crusader strike deals 20% more damage when your target is incapacitated or stunned.

This is for our Retribution brothers.

Glyph of Divinity Use: Your Lay on Hands also grants you as much mana as it grants your target.

I don't know about you, but generally I'm using Lay On Hands on myself so I am the target.

Glyph of Exorcism Use: Your Exorcism also interrupts spellcasting for 2 sec.

This has possibilities. If I had this now on the Banshee waves in Hyjal, I'd be a happy dwarf.

Glyph of Flash of Light Use: Your Flash of Light heals for 50% less initially, but also heals for 140% of its initial effect over 12 sec.

This seems more aimed at Holy, and I'm not sure if the HoT is worth the lesser heal up front. Siha of Banashoulders says "The HoT component needs to be bigger and much faster."

Glyph of Hammer of Justice
Use: Increases your Hammer of Justice duration by 1 sec.

PVP maybe? I don't see 1 more second on my stun duration being a big bonus.

Glyph of Hammer of Wrath
Use: Increases the range on Hammer of Wrath by 5 yards.

Got to get them runners. Again, looks like a PVP Glyph. I want a mob to bring me back some friends. I'm a Protection Paladin. The more the merrier, right?

Glyph of Holy Light
Use: Your Holy Light grants 10% of its heal amount to up to 5 friendly targets within 10 yds of the initial target.

Wow, just Wow. This is probably the best Holy Paladin Glyph out so far. I'm really happy for them. (Typo on the tooltip say 100 yards, it's 10).

Glyph of Judgement
Use: Your Judgements deal 10% more damage.

10% more damage is 10% more threat. Very strong Glyph, and it appeals to multiple specs.

Glyph of Righteous Defense
Use: Increases the chance for your Righteous Defense ability to work successfully by 8% on each target.

This Glyph is made for a Nalorakk type boss where a Taunt resist can cause major trouble for the encounter. I could see using this until you are Hit capped in your gear and then replacing it.

Glyph of Seal of Blood
Use: Your Seal of Blood or Seal of the Martyr increases the mana received from Spiritual Attunement by 10% while active.

I want mana and I want it now! Blood is considered more of PVE DPS Seal, so it's most often used by Ret, but it's also a strong offtank Seal. In that situation, I could see the Glyph really helping out.

Glyph of Seal of Command
Use: Increases the chance of dealing Seal of Command damage by 20%.

This makes my inner Ret Paladin smile.

Glyph of Seal of Light
Use: While Seal of Light is active, the effect of your healing spells is increased by 5%.

This makes Holy want to have a Seal active while they are healing.

Glyph of Seal of Righteousness
Use: Reduces the cost of your Judgement spells by 10% while Seal of Righteousness is active.

Will mana be a major issue? Will we be using Righteousness over Vengeance for tanking? Many questions, but the initial answers point to this Glyph being more to help a Holy Paladin in solo content.

Glyph of Seal of Vengeance
Use: Your Seal of Vengeance or Seal of Corruption also grants 10 expertise while active.

You got your Vengeance stack rocking. You are hit capped by the Boss can still Dodge, and Parry you. The Expertise, especially if it's true Expertise and not Expertise rating would be quite tasty.

Glyph of Seal of Wisdom
Use: While Seal of Wisdom is active, the cost of your healing spells is reduced by 5%.

I could see a Holy Paladin with both Seal of Wisdom and Seal of Light Glyph. You start off the fight with Seal of Light then when you low on mana, switch to Seal of Wisdom.

Glyph of Spiritual Attunement
Use: Increases the amount of mana gained from your Spiritual Attunement spell by an additional 2%.

12% mana back from Spiritual Attunement. Where do I sign up?

Glyph of Turn Evil
Use: Reduces the casting time of your Turn Evil spell by 100%.

This could allow Ret some additional Crowd Control, and give Warlocks fits in PVP.

Minor Glyphs


Glyph of Blessing of Kings
Use: Reduces the mana cost of your Blessing of Kings and Greater Blessing of Kings spells by 50%. Meh. I drink Mage water after I buff. I really don't care what it costs.

Glyph of Blessing of Might
Use: Increases the duration of your Blessing of Might spell by 20 min when cast on yourself.

Meh. I'll have to rebuff after the wipe anyway.

Glyph of Blessing of Wisdom
Use: Increases the duration of your Blessing of Wisdom spell by 20 min when cast on yourself.

Meh. See Glyph of Blessing of Might.

Glyph of Lay on Hands
Use: Increases the mana restored by your Lay on Hands spell by 20%.

This could be interesting.

Glyph of the Wise
Use: Reduces the mana cost of your Seal of Wisdom spell by 50%.

I don't think I'll be sealing Wisdom all that often.

Glyph of Sense Undead
Use: Damage against Undead increased by 1% while your Sense Undead ability is active.

There are a ton of undead in Northrend, and that 1% more threat.
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Postby uke » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:35 am

I agree with other posters here, many of the glyphs you labeled as CRAP are actually great if you consider the environment they're intended for. Maintanking PVE protection isn't the ONLY paladin spec in this game, you know :wink:

The Crusader Strike, HoJ, reduced cooldown Hammer of Wrath, and Seal of Command proc glyphs are just plain hawt for ret pallys, especially in PVP. It's a shame I can only choose 3 major glyphs among those 8)
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Postby Constantine » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:45 am

This post remind anyone else of that Mike Myers SNL skit?

If it's not Scottish, IT'S CRAP!
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Re: My synopsis of Paladin glyphs. (TL;DR: CRAP.)

Postby Lore » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:47 am

Warcraft wrote:In alphabetical order...

Glyph of Avenger's Shield
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 50
Use: Your Avenger's Shield hits 2 fewer targets, but for 100% more damage.
CRAP, and my most passionately hated Paladin glyph because so many people are convinced it's "not bad." I've said it before and I'll say it again. My ability to tag or snare 3 targets instead of 1 can save a raid. My ability to generate double the threat from something that only accounts for 1-2% of my total damage will NOT save a raid. Remove the target penalty. Better yet, make it pull more targets and cause less damage.


It's not bad. In fact it's pretty decent for single-target encounters. It's also a flavor thing - some people really hate that AS will bounce to multiple targets, and this fixes that for them perfectly.

Glyph of Avenging Wrath
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 70
Use: Reduces the cooldown of your Hammer of Wrath spell by 50% while Avenging Wrath is active.
CRAP. Hammer of Wrath is to finish off runners. What kind of idiot pops Avenging Wrath when the target is running away?


Yeah definitely, and what kind of idiot pops Avenging Wrath when their highest damage, almost-guaranteed-to-crit instant cast DPS ability becomes active in a boss fight?

Glyph of Blessing of Kings
Minor Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Reduces the mana cost of your Blessing of Kings and Greater Blessing of Kings spells by 50%.
FAIR. Could be better if it removed reagent cost instead, but it does add convenience. Anybody with Kings in WotLK will be buffing it A LOT.


The fact that you call this one "fair" when it does practically nothing is surprising.

Glyph of Blessing of Might
Minor Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Increases the duration of your Blessing of Might spell by 20 min when cast on yourself.
CRAP. Who cares about longer blessings when you're alone? Make this increase the duration of Greaer Blessing of Might instead. Better yet, make it remove the reagent cost.

Glyph of Blessing of Wisdom
Minor Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Increases the duration of your Blessing of Wisdom spell by 20 min when cast on yourself.
CRAP. See Glyph of Blessing of Might.


Bolded what you're missing there. Glyphs are intended for niche use. Leveling is a pretty solid niche use.

Glyph of Cleansing
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 35
Use: Reduces the mana cost of your Cleanse and Purify spells by 20%.
CRAP. Nobody cares about 20% off the mana cost of something that costs close to no mana anyway.


Yet you liked the BoK glyph?

Glyph of Consecration
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Increases the duration and cooldown of Consecration by 2 sec.
CRAP. Why would I purposely make a move have LESS sync with my rotation?


It's good for Ret or even Holy.

Glyph of Crusader Strike
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Your Crusader strike deals 20% more damage when your target is incapacitated or stunned.
CRAP. How much use does this glyph have on bosses?


Significantly less effect than it has in PVP.

Glyph of Divinity
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Your Lay on Hands also grants you as much mana as it grants your target.
CRAP. Are you suggesting I waste a major glyph slot for 1950 mana every 20 minutes?


"Waste"? So far you've shown 1 glyph you consider worth using, situationally.

Glyph of Exorcism
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Your Exorcism also interrupts spellcasting for 2 sec.
FUN KILLER. Effect is potent enough but a major glyph slot for an Undead spell?


Naxxramas?

Glyph of Flash of Light
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Your Flash of Light heals for 50% less initially, but also heals for 140% of its inital effect over 12 sec.
CRAP. The HoT doesn't roll. What kind of Paladin only casts Flash of Light every 15 seconds? Only the kind who isn't Holy and would not use healing glyphs to begin with...


What's up Brutallus. It's also pretty awesome for Protection and maybe even Ret.

Glyph of Hammer of Justice
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Increases your Hammer of Justice duration by 1 sec.
CRUTCH. Abilities that actually utilize multiple ranks should not go unupgraded for 2 expansions and 26 levels. Make this baseline, get rid of the glyph.


You mean like Divine Shield?

Glyph of Hammer of Wrath
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 44
Use: Increases the range on Hammer of Wrath by 5 yards.
CRAP. This is too little for a major slot. It's arguably little enough to be minor.


Holy. Or PVP.

Glyph of Holy Light
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Your Holy Light grants 10% of its heal amount to up to 5 friendly targets within 100 yds of the initial target.
GOOD. Possibly our best. So good that I'm almost ashamed to point out that this is using glyphs as a viability crutch at it's finest.


Yes it's good, no it's not required for viability. Beacon of Light much?

Glyph of Judgement
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Your Judgements deal 10% more damage.
GOOD. 'Nuff said.


Probably a little OP, and kinda boring, but very good yes.

Glyph of Lay on Hands
Minor Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Increases the mana restored by your Lay on Hands spell by 20%.
BORING. I get it, minors aren't supposed to be useful. But are they supposed to be no fun, too? Give me something that works more than once every 20 minutes.


Actually goes pretty nicely with the other LOH glyph that you hate.

Glyph of Righteous Defense
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Increases the chance for your Righteous Defense ability to work successfully by 8% on each target.
FAIR, in more than one meaning. Useful but not required, and is completely on par with the other taunt glyphs.


Yep.

Glyph of Seal of Blood
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 50
Use: Your Seal of Blood or Seal of the Martyr increases the mana received from Spiritual Attunement by 10% while active.
CRAP. The concept is interesting. SoB is the mana starved damage dealer's seal. But how many Retribution Paladins still care about mana?


Seems pretty good for Prots in low-mana situations.

Glyph of Seal of Command
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Increases the chance of dealing Seal of Command damage by 20%.
GOOD? This one seems good but I can't tell for sure.


PVP glyph, but yes, it's very good.

Glyph of Seal of Light
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 30
Use: While Seal of Light is active, the effect of your healing spells is increased by 5%.
GOOD. 5% helaing increase is quite potent, possibly even too potent.


Very good, definitely not too potent.

Glyph of Seal of Righteousness
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 50
Use: Reduces the cost of your Judgement spells by 10% while Seal of Righteousness is active.
CRAP, and CONFUSING. SoR has lost it's place not that SoV is the tanking seal, and this glyph is not helping. This glyph is both pointless and too weak.


Yeah this one is pretty bad.

Glyph of Seal of Vengeance
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 50
Use: Your Seal of Vengeance or Seal of Corruption also grants 10 expertise while active.
POTENT, but extremely BORING. If you're going to make a major glyph strong enough to be borderline required, please make it more interesting than a flat stat increase.


I think you're just using "Boring" as a way to avoid calling it good. It's no more boring than 10% judgement damage or 5% extra healing.

Glyph of Seal of Wisdom
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 38
Use: While Seal of Wisdom is active, the cost of your healing spells is reduced by 5%.
FAIR. Even though it's not always needed, this is potent enough that I could see Holy Paladins re-glyphing for it on some encounters.


Yes, very good. Probably better than 5% extra healing in most progression cases.

Glyph of Sense Undead
Minor Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Damage against Undead increased by 1% while your Sense Undead ability is active.
OVERPOWERED. No, seriously. This is as good as a minor glyph gets. It's actually beneficial.


Yeah it's nice. 1% isn't much at all.

Glyph of Spiritual Attunement
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 18
Use: Increases the amount of mana gained from your Spiritual Attunement spell by an additional 2%.
POTENT, but QUESTIONABLE. This glyph provides and exceptional amount of return. But the question is, do we need it anymore?


You might.

Glyph of the Wise
Minor Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Reduces the mana cost of your Seal of Wisdom spell by 50%.
GOOD, and SMART. Very nice minor. If you're using Seal of Wisdom, chances are you don't have much mana to splurge.


Agreed.

Glyph of Turn Evil
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 24
Use: Reduces the casting time of your Turn Evil spell by 100%.
FUN KILLER. See Glyph of Exorcism.


How is this a "fun killer"? Turn Evil is a PVP spell, and this is a very potent PVP glyph.
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Postby tullock » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:12 am

If i lose my avengers shield glyph, heads will roll. Any pack thats three or less, my hotr will take care of all the aoe threat i need, any pack thats more than three, my shield wouldnt have tagged them all and dps would have to wait for consecrate anyway. Plus, instant cast dazing spell in pvp that hits for 2k+, its so much fun in battlegrounds. If i get a chain of crits, i can burst someone from 100-0 inside of my hammer, as prot. I cant imagne thats fun for them, but it is sure as hell fun for me.
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Postby Brand » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:19 am

The more I think about the Avenger's shield Glyph, the more I like it. In a leveling setting, chances are I'm going to either be running up to someone or firing my shield off from a distance. Not sure about mob packs in Northrend, but if I'm tanking instances I have HotR and Consecrate to pick up the slack if need be. This makes singe-target threat gen easier on Bosses as well as providing additional DPS in both raiding and soloing.

Was kind of on the fence about it, but I think I might wind up picking it up.
"I wonder if there's beer on the sun." - Zap Rowsdower
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Postby Xequecal » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:26 am

[Unnecessary. Post with respect or don't post. -Lore]
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Postby Naima » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:54 am

"Glyph of Sense Undead
Minor Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Damage against Undead increased by 1% while your Sense Undead ability is active.
OVERPOWERED. No, seriously. This is as good as a minor glyph gets. It's actually beneficial."

Lol I agree so hard. When I read this, my first though was: "this is a MINOR glyph?!" 1% to UD mobs is huge. Pair this with 10 expertise, the increased spiritual attunement gain, and 10% judgment damage increase-- and glyphs look pretty great for prot from what I can see.
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Postby EvilNuff » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:07 am

I think before you scream and yell how bad the Paladin Glyphs are you should take a gander at some other class glyphs. For example, on my Resto Shaman I cannot find 3 majors I would actually use...
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