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My synopsis of Paladin glyphs. (TL;DR: CRAP.)

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My synopsis of Paladin glyphs. (TL;DR: CRAP.)

Postby Warcraft » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:17 am

In alphabetical order...

Glyph of Avenger's Shield
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 50
Use: Your Avenger's Shield hits 2 fewer targets, but for 100% more damage.
CRAP, and my most passionately hated Paladin glyph because so many people are convinced it's "not bad." I've said it before and I'll say it again. My ability to tag or snare 3 targets instead of 1 can save a raid. My ability to generate double the threat from something that only accounts for 1-2% of my total damage will NOT save a raid. Remove the target penalty. Better yet, make it pull more targets and cause less damage.

Glyph of Avenging Wrath
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 70
Use: Reduces the cooldown of your Hammer of Wrath spell by 50% while Avenging Wrath is active.
CRAP. Hammer of Wrath is to finish off runners. What kind of idiot pops Avenging Wrath when the target is running away?

Glyph of Blessing of Kings
Minor Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Reduces the mana cost of your Blessing of Kings and Greater Blessing of Kings spells by 50%.
FAIR. Could be better if it removed reagent cost instead, but it does add convenience. Anybody with Kings in WotLK will be buffing it A LOT.

Glyph of Blessing of Might
Minor Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Increases the duration of your Blessing of Might spell by 20 min when cast on yourself.
CRAP. Who cares about longer blessings when you're alone? Make this increase the duration of Greaer Blessing of Might instead. Better yet, make it remove the reagent cost.

Glyph of Blessing of Wisdom
Minor Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Increases the duration of your Blessing of Wisdom spell by 20 min when cast on yourself.
CRAP. See Glyph of Blessing of Might.

Glyph of Cleansing
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 35
Use: Reduces the mana cost of your Cleanse and Purify spells by 20%.
CRAP. Nobody cares about 20% off the mana cost of something that costs close to no mana anyway.

Glyph of Consecration
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Increases the duration and cooldown of Consecration by 2 sec.
CRAP. Why would I purposely make a move have LESS sync with my rotation?

Glyph of Crusader Strike
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Your Crusader strike deals 20% more damage when your target is incapacitated or stunned.
CRAP. How much use does this glyph have on bosses?

Glyph of Divinity
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Your Lay on Hands also grants you as much mana as it grants your target.
CRAP. Are you suggesting I waste a major glyph slot for 1950 mana every 20 minutes?

Glyph of Exorcism
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Your Exorcism also interrupts spellcasting for 2 sec.
FUN KILLER. Effect is potent enough but a major glyph slot for an Undead spell?

Glyph of Flash of Light
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Your Flash of Light heals for 50% less initially, but also heals for 140% of its inital effect over 12 sec.
CRAP. The HoT doesn't roll. What kind of Paladin only casts Flash of Light every 15 seconds? Only the kind who isn't Holy and would not use healing glyphs to begin with...

Glyph of Hammer of Justice
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Increases your Hammer of Justice duration by 1 sec.
CRUTCH. Abilities that actually utilize multiple ranks should not go unupgraded for 2 expansions and 26 levels. Make this baseline, get rid of the glyph.

Glyph of Hammer of Wrath
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 44
Use: Increases the range on Hammer of Wrath by 5 yards.
CRAP. This is too little for a major slot. It's arguably little enough to be minor.

Glyph of Holy Light
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Your Holy Light grants 10% of its heal amount to up to 5 friendly targets within 100 yds of the initial target.
GOOD. Possibly our best. So good that I'm almost ashamed to point out that this is using glyphs as a viability crutch at it's finest.

Glyph of Judgement
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Your Judgements deal 10% more damage.
GOOD. 'Nuff said.

Glyph of Lay on Hands
Minor Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Increases the mana restored by your Lay on Hands spell by 20%.
BORING. I get it, minors aren't supposed to be useful. But are they supposed to be no fun, too? Give me something that works more than once every 20 minutes.

Glyph of Righteous Defense
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Increases the chance for your Righteous Defense ability to work successfully by 8% on each target.
FAIR, in more than one meaning. Useful but not required, and is completely on par with the other taunt glyphs.

Glyph of Seal of Blood
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 50
Use: Your Seal of Blood or Seal of the Martyr increases the mana received from Spiritual Attunement by 10% while active.
CRAP. The concept is interesting. SoB is the mana starved damage dealer's seal. But how many Retribution Paladins still care about mana?

Glyph of Seal of Command
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Increases the chance of dealing Seal of Command damage by 20%.
GOOD? This one seems good but I can't tell for sure.

Glyph of Seal of Light
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 30
Use: While Seal of Light is active, the effect of your healing spells is increased by 5%.
GOOD. 5% helaing increase is quite potent, possibly even too potent.

Glyph of Seal of Righteousness
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 50
Use: Reduces the cost of your Judgement spells by 10% while Seal of Righteousness is active.
CRAP, and CONFUSING. SoR has lost it's place not that SoV is the tanking seal, and this glyph is not helping. This glyph is both pointless and too weak.

Glyph of Seal of Vengeance
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 50
Use: Your Seal of Vengeance or Seal of Corruption also grants 10 expertise while active.
POTENT, but extremely BORING. If you're going to make a major glyph strong enough to be borderline required, please make it more interesting than a flat stat increase.

Glyph of Seal of Wisdom
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 38
Use: While Seal of Wisdom is active, the cost of your healing spells is reduced by 5%.
FAIR. Even though it's not always needed, this is potent enough that I could see Holy Paladins re-glyphing for it on some encounters.

Glyph of Sense Undead
Minor Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Damage against Undead increased by 1% while your Sense Undead ability is active.
OVERPOWERED. No, seriously. This is as good as a minor glyph gets. It's actually beneficial.

Glyph of Spiritual Attunement
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 18
Use: Increases the amount of mana gained from your Spiritual Attunement spell by an additional 2%.
POTENT, but QUESTIONABLE. This glyph provides and exceptional amount of return. But the question is, do we need it anymore?

Glyph of the Wise
Minor Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Reduces the mana cost of your Seal of Wisdom spell by 50%.
GOOD, and SMART. Very nice minor. If you're using Seal of Wisdom, chances are you don't have much mana to splurge.

Glyph of Turn Evil
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 24
Use: Reduces the casting time of your Turn Evil spell by 100%.
FUN KILLER. See Glyph of Exorcism.
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Re: My synopsis of Paladin glyphs. (TL;DR: CRAP.)

Postby ulushnar » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:23 am

Warcraft wrote:Glyph of Avenging Wrath
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 70
Use: Reduces the cooldown of your Hammer of Wrath spell by 50% while Avenging Wrath is active.
CRAP. Hammer of Wrath is to finish off runners. What kind of idiot pops Avenging Wrath when the target is running away?


Hammer of Wrath is now available from 35% health and is instant cast. There's no reason not to use it when a mob's low, especially if you have a DPS warrior going Execute crazy.

Of course it's main intended use is for Retadins who pop wings and proceed to burn down some poor fool in PVP within the AW duration.
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Postby Sinadil » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:28 am

Nice post Mr Warcraft, but arnt the glyphs getting looked at? It would be nice to get some better ones and the crap ones removed
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Re: My synopsis of Paladin glyphs. (TL;DR: CRAP.)

Postby ziggyunderslashone » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:34 am

Warcraft wrote:Glyph of Avenger's Shield
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 50
Use: Your Avenger's Shield hits 2 fewer targets, but for 100% more damage.
CRAP, and my most passionately hated Paladin glyph because so many people are convinced it's "not bad." I've said it before and I'll say it again. My ability to tag or snare 3 targets instead of 1 can save a raid. My ability to generate double the threat from something that only accounts for 1-2% of my total damage will NOT save a raid. Remove the target penalty. Better yet, make it pull more targets and cause less damage.

It turns it into a high spike single target spell. It's a threat increase and while not mindblowing, isn't far behind the judgement one.

It's situational. Yes, you want a three target spell on trash, but how useful is that on bosses?

If glyphs were set in stone, you'd have a point.
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Postby Andryana » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:38 am

Well, since from what i read we don't seem to have any problems getting good threat, i would rather have my regular frisbee than the 1-target version.
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:44 am

Andryana wrote:Well, since from what i read we don't seem to have any problems getting good threat, i would rather have my regular frisbee than the 1-target version.

Which renders both judgement and sov glyph poor as well
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Postby Warcraft » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:45 am

Sinadil wrote:Nice post Mr Warcraft, but arnt the glyphs getting looked at? It would be nice to get some better ones and the crap ones removed

Glyphs are getting looked at. That's why I figured I'd post this now and not at another time when it makes no difference.

ziggyunderslashone wrote:It turns it into a high spike single target spell. It's a threat increase and while not mindblowing, isn't far behind the judgement one.

It's situational. Yes, you want a three target spell on trash, but how useful is that on bosses?

If glyphs were set in stone, you'd have a point.

Glyphs are set in stone. You can't just toggle them on and off, or even replace them with something else anymore without being near a Lexicon of Power.

And again, this glyph does not turn Avenger's Shield into a "high spike." It's still nothing. You use it once every 30 seconds. It does less damage than some of your 6 second moves. It will never mean the difference between success and failure.
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Postby Rhî » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:48 am

Warcraft wrote:And again, this glyph does not turn Avenger's Shield into a "high spike." It's still nothing. You use it once every 30 seconds. It does less damage than some of your 6 second moves. It will never mean the difference between success and failure.


That's not right. It's doing significantly more damage than everything else, if glyphed.
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Postby econ21 » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:51 am

Interesting post - so if things are not changed, which glyphs will maintankadins go for? (is it 3 minor and 3 major?)
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:54 am

Warcraft wrote:Glyphs are set in stone. You can't just toggle them on and off, or even replace them with something else anymore without being near a Lexicon of Power.

So you change is at the lexicon, depending on which would be stronger for the content you're learning.

And what Rhi said.
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Postby Cearn » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:58 am

I don't get from which perspective you are evaluating the Glyphs and as far as i can tell re-glyphing is no moneyhog.
I see them more like long-term buffs I can exchange regularly depending on encounter. I wold love the Consecration Glyph for the Shattered Halls for example, and remember that it is a level 20(!) Glyph. I guess it's hard to actually notice it when playing endgame, but the Glyph is great for tanking in lower levels. I can't really comment on the AS Glyph. If it out-threats/out-prices another move, it might come in handy in MT Situations. I expect the HoW Glyph to be a standard PvP Glyph, even as a Major. The SoB Glyph will probably be my situational DPS-in-Protspec Glyph.
Overall, I can see uses for "most" Glyphs, but they probably won't be all time favourites.

PS: Glyph of Judgement is "GOOD. 'Nuff said." and Glyph of Seal of Vengeance is "POTENT, but extremely BORING." ? I can't follow you...
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Postby Andryana » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:00 am

econ21 wrote:Interesting post - so if things are not changed, which glyphs will maintankadins go for? (is it 3 minor and 3 major?)


The 3rd major only unlocks at 80 iirc.

I will go with the righteous defense and judgement or SoV expertise ones, the minors seem all crap to me, i would want something that could make some cosmetic changes to spells,etc .. waiting for something better :\
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Postby Dawnseeker » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:01 am

The glyphs themselves aren't the major problem, after all a small buff is a buff.
It's when you start comparing them to the warrior tanking ones. They get a pretty much constant +10%BV and free heroic strikes.
But as someone else has already said, thankfully the glyph pass is here/on its way, so we can expect some improvements.
Anyone else noticed they haven't made any for any new skills on any classes as far as I can see? (apart from DKs obviously). Wonder what they have in store.
One glyph I really want is one that removes the annoying daze from AS and gives it a silence or reduces it's CD.
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Postby Sharlos » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:30 am

You know the blessing of wisdom and might ones are available from level fifteen. They are leveling glyphs, before you get the great versions, before you have reagents to worry about, having double durations while leveling isn't that bad.
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Re: My synopsis of Paladin glyphs. (TL;DR: CRAP.)

Postby Proudfoot » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:32 am

Warcraft wrote:Glyph of Avenger's Shield
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 50
Use: Your Avenger's Shield hits 2 fewer targets, but for 100% more damage.
CRAP, and my most passionately hated Paladin glyph because so many people are convinced it's "not bad." I've said it before and I'll say it again. My ability to tag or snare 3 targets instead of 1 can save a raid. My ability to generate double the threat from something that only accounts for 1-2% of my total damage will NOT save a raid. Remove the target penalty. Better yet, make it pull more targets and cause less damage.
This glyph is not bad... and if you don't like it you do have a choice to take it or not. It could help prot pallys in PVP too. /shrug
Warcraft wrote:Glyph of Avenging Wrath
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 70
Use: Reduces the cooldown of your Hammer of Wrath spell by 50% while Avenging Wrath is active.
CRAP. Hammer of Wrath is to finish off runners. What kind of idiot pops Avenging Wrath when the target is running away?
As a Ret Pally I will probably take this glyph for PVE... I can spam HoW at 35% health with wings up... yes please.
Warcraft wrote:Glyph of Crusader Strike
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Your Crusader strike deals 20% more damage when your target is incapacitated or stunned.
CRAP. How much use does this glyph have on bosses?
This doesn't have effect on bosses... ever heard of PVP? This is one of the best PVP glyphs so far.

Warcraft wrote:Glyph of Exorcism
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Your Exorcism also interrupts spellcasting for 2 sec.
FUN KILLER. Effect is potent enough but a major glyph slot for an Undead spell?
Has anyone confirmed that this only works on undead? I had thought that there was talk about the glyphed version working as an interrupt on all.
Warcraft wrote:Glyph of Flash of Light
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Your Flash of Light heals for 50% less initially, but also heals for 140% of its inital effect over 12 sec.
CRAP. The HoT doesn't roll. What kind of Paladin only casts Flash of Light every 15 seconds? Only the kind who isn't Holy and would not use healing glyphs to begin with...
I'd consider taking this glyph for my Ret paladin in PVP. You won't be spamming flash of light and it will heal for more overall and the HoT does stack with the Sheath HoT.

Warcraft wrote:Glyph of Hammer of Justice
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 15
Use: Increases your Hammer of Justice duration by 1 sec.
CRUTCH. Abilities that actually utilize multiple ranks should not go unupgraded for 2 expansions and 26 levels. Make this baseline, get rid of the glyph.
Personally I'd like to see hammer of justice have a shorter cooldown BASE and lower the durration of the stun. I'd also nerf the improved hammer of Justice talent. I don't like thinking that I have to go that far into prot to be decent in PVP as ret.

Warcraft wrote:Glyph of Hammer of Wrath
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 44
Use: Increases the range on Hammer of Wrath by 5 yards.
CRAP. This is too little for a major slot. It's arguably little enough to be minor.
Should be minor. /agree

Warcraft wrote:Glyph of Seal of Command
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 20
Use: Increases the chance of dealing Seal of Command damage by 20%.
GOOD? This one seems good but I can't tell for sure.
It's good.

Warcraft wrote:Glyph of Spiritual Attunement
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 18
Use: Increases the amount of mana gained from your Spiritual Attunement spell by an additional 2%.
POTENT, but QUESTIONABLE. This glyph provides and exceptional amount of return. But the question is, do we need it anymore?
Might be nice for holy pallies combo'd with Hand of Sacrifice.
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