Remove Advertisements

Threat Comparisons - 2 tanks (at present)

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Threat Comparisons - 2 tanks (at present)

Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:45 am

So I've been reading here and on other paladin boards that our threat is awful, and on warrior boards that it's crazy good. Once again I found this fuzzy, subjective and slightly frustrating. All my solutions seem to involve spreadsheets.

The Spreadsheet: 18:34 10/10


http://www.savefile.com/files/1831821

Output as of posting:

Warrior: 5945.43
Paladin: 7427.98

Notes

The dodge/parry/deflect rates I'm using are based on some assumptions and previously observed data. How deflect operates is still under testing. Armor for level 80 bosses was drawn from this post.

Innate threat values on warrior abilities drawn fromhere.

Infinite rage and mana are assumed (and actually quite likely). This means warriors are using 100% heroic strikes.

The second (sometimes even third) 10% multiplier on the paladin abilities is Curse of Elements.

Warrior abilities Usage is based on a simplistic simulator. The random nature of Sword and Board makes it unmodelable, so I ran the sim for as long as my work pc could handle (about 300 hours) and it averaged out to these values. The sim assumes a priority order rather than rotation. SS->SW->TC->Rev->Dev.

The most effective place to refresh seals is to replace a consecrate (this is due to +block libram). Avengers Shield is the same, moving this to a 36 second usage, every 4th rotation.

Block and hit rates for reactive abilities taken from here (which uses common gear)

I'm totally unfamiliar with druid and death knight threat, but I intend to give those a bash. Suggestions welcome.

I have made no accounting for Vigilance. It's effect are totally situation dependant. I see no way to balance this ability against the four other tanks, but still, one should assume a good 300-500 tps on top of warrior abilities at all times.

This was built for comparative purpose. We already have a couple of good gear analysis sheets here (which were most helpful by the by).

Help so far greatly appreciated!
Last edited by ziggyunderslashone on Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:35 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
ziggyunderslashone
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:33 am

Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:49 am

A good way to tell how close or far you are is to pick the warrior dps and put on the baked salv + defensive stance multipliers. I don'tk now how much the embed threat on abilities represent for them since Blizz is trying to move away from that a little, but it should give you a rough idea.


wtb that spreadsheet in a manner I can open it =( Stupid blocked downloads
Image
I am not allowed to seduce the abyssal's lunar mate.
User avatar
Snake-Aes
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 15538
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:15 am
Location: Thorns

Postby Worldie » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:49 am

Did you account 13% damage modifier for our skills for example? Since in a 25 men raid we'll 100% have it, and there's a high chance we do in 10 men too.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13369
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:52 am

Worldie wrote:Did you account 13% damage modifier for our skills for example? Since in a 25 men raid we'll 100% have it, and there's a high chance we do in 10 men too.

10% at the minute. I don't know how good affliction is. I think you're right that it's probably an assumed in 25 mans however.
User avatar
ziggyunderslashone
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:33 am

Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:53 am

Snake-Aes wrote:wtb that spreadsheet in a manner I can open it =( Stupid blocked downloads

Anywhere I can lob it that you can get at it? Savefiles just something I use a lot for transfers.
User avatar
ziggyunderslashone
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:33 am

Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:53 am

ziggyunderslashone wrote:
Worldie wrote:Did you account 13% damage modifier for our skills for example? Since in a 25 men raid we'll 100% have it, and there's a high chance we do in 10 men too.

10% at the minute. I don't know how good affliction is. I think you're right that it's probably an assumed in 25 mans however.
Malediction puts CoE at 13%
Image
I am not allowed to seduce the abyssal's lunar mate.
User avatar
Snake-Aes
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 15538
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:15 am
Location: Thorns

Postby Worldie » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:54 am

I think you are also not accounting Spiritual Attunement threat... if that still exists, however.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13369
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:56 am

Worldie wrote:I think you are also not accounting Spiritual Attunement threat... if that still exists, however.

True, I've left power gains alone entirely. If I get to all 4 classes I'll take a gander at buff threat (I used to spam RF during cd gaps on teron) and gains.
User avatar
ziggyunderslashone
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:33 am

Postby Daeren » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:03 am

Ebon Plague also brings it to 13%
User avatar
Daeren
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:22 pm

Postby Rhî » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:08 am

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... sc&start=0

Link to my spreadsheet topic. You can compare your paladin values with mine. And as a sidenote, I think, I have used all available data.
Image
Rhî
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:41 am

Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:27 am

Rhî wrote:http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=14462&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Link to my spreadsheet topic. You can compare your paladin values with mine. And as a sidenote, I think, I have used all available data.

Hugely impressive stuff. Spent a while playing with that now, wish I had before really.

Even with a number of additional buffs (many of which I'm suddenly feeling I should add, cos but no blood frenzy, harldy fair). However it is close enough to make me think the paladin figure is at least in the ballpark, meaning the warrior one is screwy or we really are ahead.
User avatar
ziggyunderslashone
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:33 am

Postby Zironic » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:08 am

Excell seriously need a way to name your variables,

Anyhow, I can follow all of your math except where does the 1.43 modifier come from? It looks suspiciously like the scaling variable for instant spells but you've already accounted for scaling.
Zironic
 
Posts: 2133
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:07 am

Postby dmok » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:10 am

Zironic wrote:Excell seriously need a way to name your variables,

Anyhow, I can follow all of your math except where does the 1.43 modifier come from? It looks suspiciously like the scaling variable for instant spells but you've already accounted for scaling.


1 / 0.7 = 1.43

this is the "baked in" threat from salv, the modifier to which was added to all tank "stances" for all threat produced in that "stance" (def stance, righteous fury, frost presence, etc)
There ain't no pirate like a Mead Hall Pirate

Mead Hall Pirates - The Scryers US
Dmor: 80 Prot Paladin | Dmok: 80 MM Hunter | Dmos: 80 Disc Priest | Dmoz: 80 Unholy DK
dmok
 
Posts: 972
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:49 am
Location: The Scryers

Postby Zironic » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:25 am

Then I don't think I can find any major issues with the math as such.
Zironic
 
Posts: 2133
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:07 am

Postby harlekin » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:32 am

Excell seriously need a way to name your variables,


Insert->Name->Create

You just give a name to a cell or range of cells, then you can refer to it from other formulae. It's a bit clunky, but useful when I'm doing complicated spreadsheets. It's also nearly required for some cross-sheet linking techniques.
Shadow Council - US - Horde
Xandreth (80) - Prot Paladin - MT
Tyrenn (80) - Arcane Mage (please blizz, fix frost!)
Saege (80) - Tree

Progression: EQ, Anarchy, DAoC, EQ, WoW (yes, EQ twice)
harlekin
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Next

Return to WotLK

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
?php } else { ?