The Heal that Kills...

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The Heal that Kills...

Postby Bobness » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:43 am

We talk a lot about the situational functionality of AD, but potentially with much larger Health pools Larger AD active Zones & Big bad hitting bosses. But what about the heal that kills you ?


For Example you have 37k Health big bad boss hits you for 14k AD kicks in at 12.25k from that POV whilst you remain between 9.1k & 12.25k you can't be one shot.

Go below & your a gonna.

However what happens when that well meaning Healer heals you to between 12.25k & 13.99k... you will effectively go splat on the next hit..

My Math could be out but i hope you get the picture.
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Postby Origon » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:45 am

*Hopes that if he drops that low, there is more than one heal incoming
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Postby Levantine » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:49 am

I'm unsure of any heal in the game that is that small, other than maybe a Renew tick or similar HoT. Certainly no full size direct heal. One of those is likely to take you over 50% again.
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Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:49 am

This is still a better situation than having a guaranteed one-shot with or without the heal coming in (ie, no AD). It's one of the things that makes AD slightly less effective than it sounds, but it still saves your life on the times that you don't land in that precise danger zone.
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Postby Bobness » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:52 am

No... i'm not suggesting AD is bad or whining...i'm just saying there will be a potential (expanding) area where receiving a heal could result in death
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Postby sherck » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:52 am

And in your example, who only healed you for 1.4k health to keep you in the magic zone?

Since no one can down rank, any direct heal from any healing class at 80 is going to heal much more than 1.4k health.

Perhaps you are under the effect of an HoT that bumps you up into the magic zone but...you would also be receiving a direct heal as soon after the hit lands as possible.

Heck, my FoL heals for 1.3k now with about 1/2 Kara gear and 1/2 level 70 blues. By level 80 in the same quality gear (1/2 10 Naxx and 1/2 level 80 blues), I fully expect my FoL to be hitting for around 2k.

Anyway, sure, it could happen but I think the window would be pretty darn small.

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Postby Bobness » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:54 am

nah it's potentially a heal from 9.1k

that puts you between 12.25k & 13.99 k


2k heal on 9k health & you live

4k heal on 9k health & you die

So if my math was correct & the example was relevant (which is questionable ofc)

Any Heal that puts you between 9.1k & 12.25k keeps you alive

Any Heal that puts you between 12.25k & 14k potentially leads to your death
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Postby Jikozani » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:22 am

This already happens sometimees in live. AD is still better than no AD however.

The only way to work around this would be to have it be a buff (like the commendation), that we gainbelow 35% and will mitigate the next hit no matter what. Or an ability that we can press below 35%. Though it would then no longer be able to mitigate multiple hits.
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Postby MonkH » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:24 am

do u mean like on nefarion priest call that when priests heal it causes dmg?
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Postby Garwin » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:34 am

the design of this talent* has always been questionable, that its allowed to be bypassed, and that it has these healing querks has always been referenced and argued against.

I'll bet that every person that ever picked it looked at the skill and though .. "hmm I'd rather have it than not, but I'm not happy with 5 whole points on this.."

we'd all like to see some changes to this talent lets face it.

the only thing that keeps selling it to me is that with crushing blows removed and crits negatable with defence, truly massive hits are less and less likey to sneek in unless they're a boss quirk (aka the big cleaver/saberlash) or massive spell hit.

In those cases your healers know the risks of having you on low hits and should be on the case (and you on your healthpot/heath stone/divine prot/loh button)

it's not an answer I know .. but can anyone really claim to have one beyond standing on a soap box and casting a "blessing of selfrightiousness"

8)

all said in good humor.

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Postby Worldie » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:47 am

While what you say is correct, you can think like this:

If a heal for 4k lands when you got 9k hp, you die
If a heal for 2k lands when you got 9k hp and you got no AD, you die
If a heal for 2k lands when you got 9k hp and you got AD, you live


So, after all, AD reduces your chances to die anyway
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Postby Ashmadai » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:48 am

I think we also have to consider that with the new focus on dimishing returns on avoidance and basically mitigating a little more and avoiding a bit less, bosses will more than likely not be tuned to hit so hard that say 2 normal hits will kill you. That design had to be used in deep TBC because avoidance was getting so crazy if you didn't make the bosses hit like trucks then tanks would never have a chance of dying.
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Postby Bobness » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:48 am

I guess i just hadn't thought of Ardent Defender having a weakness beyond it's ability to be leapfrogged..

I didn't twig that if effectively creates two healing "Dead Zones".
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Postby Worldie » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:49 am

The thing is that, this "dead zone" does not exist at all, since the presence of AD is irrelevant to your death in that case.
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Postby Bobness » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:56 am

Obviously compared to not having the talent that is true, but does this zone of weakness expand as we get higher HP & bosses hit Harder.

I'm not being obtuse i just wondered if this was part of the design intent or just an unforseen side effect.
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