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Improved judgement 1/2 or 2/2 with wotlk?

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Improved judgement 1/2 or 2/2 with wotlk?

Postby olorin00 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:55 pm

hello,

I got a little question:

With the change on the cd of holy shield (8sec instead of 10), and the new tanking tool like HotR, will it still be better to put only one point in Improved judgment?

I know it's a matter of rotation but I am not really good at theorymathing to be honest so if anyone can help me on that, I will be thankful.


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Postby knaughty » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:03 pm

1/2 has been shown by Psiven to be the only correct value.

0/2 and 2/2 both break your rotation and have reduced TPS.
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Postby Seraphia » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:09 pm

Well there's no reason you can't keep the same rotation with 2/2, it just wastes a talent point and requires more micro-managing.


Me? I'm saving that point for that 11 point protection talent!


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Postby Chunes » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:12 pm

Seraphia wrote:Well there's no reason you can't keep the same rotation with 2/2, it just wastes a talent point and requires more micro-managing.


Me? I'm saving that point for that 11 point protection talent!


/dreams :oops:


my thoughts exactly. 1/2 is best tho for the 96969696 rotation.
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Postby HiImRagnos » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:12 pm

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Postby olorin00 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:19 pm

Ty guys, sorry I didnt saw the thread myself
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Postby Elsie » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:18 pm

I don't know if 0/2 would be bad if you twisted it with an ability you don't normally use.

ie, if the 9696 is holy shield / sotr / judge / hotr
it becomes
Round 1: holy shield / sotr / judge / hotr
Round 2: holy shield / sotr / consecrate / hotr
Round 3: Repeat 1

This assumes judgment does less threat than sotr/hotr. This also assumes it's only a 4 part rotation, you might require avenger's shield/exorcism/holy wrath if this is extended any.

edit: on looking at the link, you'd basically need exorcism / holy wrath to make 0/2 viable.
I wonder what a 10s consecrate / 10 second judgment rotation would look like given exorcism, AS, consecrate, holy shield, sotr, hotr.

edit2: actually 0/2 doesn't look so bad once you get sotr with consecrate.
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Postby dmok » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:53 am

Elsie wrote:ie, if the 9696 is holy shield / sotr / judge / hotr
it becomes
Round 1: holy shield / sotr / judge / hotr
Round 2: holy shield / sotr / consecrate / hotr
Round 3: Repeat 1

This would not work. When you went to cast Holy Shield again, it would still be on CD (8s CD = 6 GCD before you can use it again. you are trying to use it every 4 GCD)
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Postby Norrath » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:05 am

The mistake is that in 969, Consecration is already used.

The full rotation is Judgement, HotR, Holy Shield, ShoR, Consecration, HotR, Judgement, ShoR, Holy Shield, HotR, Consecration, ShoR, repeat.
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Postby Origon » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:16 am

From that rotation, what would be the best choice to skip to do things like rebuff seal / rebuff sacred shield (if only pally in raid), use hand spell on someone and such?
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:20 am

Origon wrote:From that rotation, what would be the best choice to skip to do things like rebuff seal / rebuff sacred shield (if only pally in raid), use hand spell on someone and such?
I'd say consecration if it's #Targets <= 3, otherwise probably ShoR
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Postby Origon » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:25 am

So bossfights, definitely conc then, especially since its a huge mana-hog. Not sure where the discussion on sacred shield went, but is it worth rebuffing it on self every 30s? (assume only pally in the raid, MTing, 10man)
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Postby Elsie » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:33 am

This would not work. When you went to cast Holy Shield again, it would still be on CD (8s CD = 6 GCD before you can use it again. you are trying to use it every 4 GCD)

Err, no. You assume the 8 functions as a 9. Yknow, just like in 9696...
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Postby dmok » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:45 am

Elsie wrote:Err, no. You assume the 8 functions as a 9. Yknow, just like in 9696...

so even if I pretend that the CD on holy shield is 9s, you still cannot use it every 4 GCDs.

1.5s per GCD.
8s CD

8/1.5 = 5.3333
Therefore holy shield can only be used once every 6 GCDs. If I were to expand your rotation out, it would look like ...

GCD1: Holy shield
GCD2: ShoR
GCD3: Judge
GCD4: HotR
GCD5: Holy shield
GCD6: ShoR
GCD7: Consecrate
GCD8: HotR
...

you can see from above that you would be trying to use Holy shield every 4th GCD, or every 8th GCD. You cannot use it on the 4th because it would still be on CD. If you wait until the 8th, you have approximately 1-2s (pending latency) where holy shield is not up at all.


all I am trying to state is that there will be empty gaps in your rotation if you try and use 0/2 imp judge as you wait for CDs to come up (either holy shield's, judge's, or something else). since consecrate is already present in the 96969 rotation, you are not "replacing" anything with it and we have no other consistant threat abilities on a short enough CD to fill the gap.


[edit] getting 2/2 wont hurt in a 96969 rotation, since it would get the holy shield/consecrate treatment (have it come of CD 1s before you need to use it) however only 1/2 is required to make it fit.
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Postby Elsie » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:23 am

Time for some yummy math fun time! Yes I'm aware you can only use Holy Shield every 9 seconds, and 4 GCD = 6s.
Assume GCDs are 1.5. We are discussing level 80 right?

Prep SoV
00.0 HS (ready at 8.0)
01.5 HotR (ready at 7.5)
03.0 Judgement (Ready at 13.0)
04.5 sotr (ready at 10.5)
06.0 Cons (ready at 14)
----------
07.5 HotR (ready at 13.5)
09.0 HS (ready at 17.0)
10.5 sotr (ready at 16.5)
12.0 (free) <- Avenger's Shield (ready at 25)
-----------
13.5 hotr (ready at 19.5) <--- judgment ready here
15.0 Cons ( Ready at 23.0)
16.5 sotr (ready at 22.5)
18.0 HS (Ready at 26.0)
19.5 hotr (assume from now hotr/sotr are ready)
21.0 judgment <--- 18 seconds later, unless we prefered it at 15.0
22.5 sotr
24.0 Cons
25.5 hotr
27.0 HS
28.5 sotr
30.0 (Free) <--- exorcism if possible
31.5 Judgment <--- was available at 31.0 if 30.0 unused.

So.. we have a max 1 second free every 30 seconds. This probably won't even be noticed due to latency.
I don't think we'll have any problems at 80 with 0/2.
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