Threat problems? :/

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Postby Grothnir » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:57 pm

Kellann wrote:If threat's not important, they should lower RF and raise our dps to be in line with the other tanks.

Geez. I was saying something similar as far back as patch 1.9. (The reasons were different, but the goal has been the same).

Besides, a 90% modifier is just asking for trouble down the road. We could be WAY behind now and come out ahead a few tiers down with a modifier that ridiculous, provided they don't deliberately underbuild our gear again.
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Postby Splug » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:09 pm

fiorina wrote:Actually it was whine about HotR being sucky and contributing to my threat less than melee swings which is too bad for 51-point talent. Threat issue was rather minor I was just wondering why my numbers are lower again for no reason.
Do not underestimate how much damage autoattack really is. For single target encounters, autoattack or autoattack+on-next-attacks is going to clock in extremely high (and often on top) for most classes. The only reason that hasn't been true before is the reliance on caster weapons and low strength meant paladin autoattacks were extremely low. That's no longer the case.

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Postby Sakiara » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:26 pm

Splug actually brings up a really good point.
I don't think reckoning will be as good as it used to be, but what if we're underestimating it because we're all so used to 40~ DPS caster weapons?
Obviously we'll have to see how things pan out in the expansion, but I have a hunch reckoning won't suck as much as we originally thought, especially if the extra swings can crit, which I am 99% sure they can, unless they changed that too?
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Postby Splug » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:32 pm

Additional attacks, such as reckoning and windfury, could crit in TBC. Windfury has been removed, and I have not tested Reckoning. It's worth noting that Blood Caked Blade supposedly cannot crit, but that may be the exception rather than the rule (or a bug).

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Postby Fridmarr » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:33 pm

Sakiara wrote:Splug actually brings up a really good point.
I don't think reckoning will be as good as it used to be, but what if we're underestimating it because we're all so used to 40~ DPS caster weapons?
Obviously we'll have to see how things pan out in the expansion, but I have a hunch reckoning won't suck as much as we originally thought, especially if the extra swings can crit, which I am 99% sure they can, unless they changed that too?


Reckoning has been mathed out, though I'm a bit too lazy to find it at the moment. In terms of a percentage increase in threat is was pretty low, worse than Seals of the Pure.
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Postby majiben » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:33 pm

Fridmarr wrote:
Sakiara wrote:Splug actually brings up a really good point.
I don't think reckoning will be as good as it used to be, but what if we're underestimating it because we're all so used to 40~ DPS caster weapons?
Obviously we'll have to see how things pan out in the expansion, but I have a hunch reckoning won't suck as much as we originally thought, especially if the extra swings can crit, which I am 99% sure they can, unless they changed that too?


Reckoning has been mathed out, though I'm a bit too lazy to find it at the moment. In terms of a percentage increase in threat is was pretty low, worse than Seals of the Pure.

How does it stack up as a dps increase?
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Postby Fridmarr » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:34 pm

Splug wrote:Additional attacks, such as reckoning and windfury, could crit in TBC. Windfury has been removed, and I have not tested Reckoning. It's worth noting that Blood Caked Blade supposedly cannot crit, but that may be the exception rather than the rule (or a bug).

-Splug


It's also apparently being affected by a 10 second internal cooldown at the moment, though GC said that it is likely a bug and no cooldown should exist.
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Postby Splug » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:59 pm

Yes; I have a post in that thread, hehe.

But that's why I noted it may well just be a bug.

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Postby Fridmarr » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:03 pm

Majiben wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:
Sakiara wrote:Splug actually brings up a really good point.
I don't think reckoning will be as good as it used to be, but what if we're underestimating it because we're all so used to 40~ DPS caster weapons?
Obviously we'll have to see how things pan out in the expansion, but I have a hunch reckoning won't suck as much as we originally thought, especially if the extra swings can crit, which I am 99% sure they can, unless they changed that too?


Reckoning has been mathed out, though I'm a bit too lazy to find it at the moment. In terms of a percentage increase in threat is was pretty low, worse than Seals of the Pure.

How does it stack up as a dps increase?


Here I found the thread, http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... hp?t=13588

DPS numbers weren't done, it was just looking at skills in terms of what percentage of threat they produced.

EDIT: It's also old in that ShoR has been nerfed and HotR has been buffed since then, though I don't think that would yield a massive change in Reckoning threat. However, we should probably get some more current threat data put together.
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Postby Rasmfrackn » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:34 pm

snowwight wrote:Does anyone have any numbers? I know psiven has a spreadsheet, and I found a warrior tps spreadsheet on tankspot, but it's a little confusing and it would probably take me some time to get good answers out of them.

Right now we have one experienced tankadin's report, and that's valuable, but, as the saying goes, the plural of anecdote is not data.


Yeah, this seems like the sort of thing I'd rather theorycraft than parse. It's about the class mechanics more than the players' skill. Of course, me harping on it might make one think that I'm volunteering. Hrm...
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