Threat problems? :/

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Postby Sabindeus » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:13 am

Juugimus wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
Worldie wrote:Ye, that's the TLDR version.

I suspect Fiorina tanks without RF in order to complain about TPS but don't tell him.


I did that once in 10 man naxx! It took much longer to realize it than it would on live.


The only time I ever lost threat in Naxx 10 is when Sabin sabotaged me with a BoP.

Hmm, I thought that was my Hyjal ring proc animation... :lol:


I'M SORRY OH GOD :(
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:16 am

FOOL!


Code: Select all
#showtooltip
/cancelaura Hand of Protection
/cast Holy Shield
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Postby Playdoh » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:35 am

I was wondering something - which is very dangerous to begin with.

In Fionira's post it said he had 100 hit rating? Was that him trying to tank a 70 instance or an 80 instance?

If it was a level 80 instance and his hit rating was 100, that could be ALOT of misses, even as a pally if you don't hit the mob you aren't getting alot of threat.

Warriors are already known to try to get expertise and hit rating up there because there threat has always depended on how often they hit the boss, they do trade quite a bit of hit for mitigation so usually are not capped.

I have actually seen several post saying the expertise and hit rating will now both be stats that we will need to pay more attention to.
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Postby DeadMilliken » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:41 am

Snake-Aes wrote:FOOL!


Code: Select all
#showtooltip
/cancelaura Divine Shield
/cancelaura Divine Intervention
/cancelaura Hand of Protection
/cast Holy Shield


Fixed dat for you
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Postby Playdoh » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:44 am

DeadMilliken wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:FOOL!


Code: Select all
#showtooltip
/cancelaura Divine Shield
/cancelaura Divine Intervention
/cancelaura Hand of Protection
/cancelaura Hand of Salvation
/cast Holy Shield


Fixed dat for you


Fix'd again
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Postby amadiss » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:45 am

How does exorcim works in the XP and how much of a difference does it makes?
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Postby Sabindeus » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:46 am

amadiss wrote:How does exorcim works in the XP and how much of a difference does it makes?


it works pretty well and makes a difference.
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Postby fiorina » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:46 am

Worldie wrote:Ye, that's the TLDR version.

I suspect Fiorina tanks without RF in order to complain about TPS but don't tell him.


Well. As stated in another threat if paladin and warrior have equal gear level, good warrior is doing more DPS and TPS for some reason in entry level content.

It's not a problem since only sick, sick, SICK geared people with 5k DPS are able to steal aggro on mobile fights (Faerlina, Heigan).

I just asked, why I am doing less numbers again, especially on undead target. On freaking undead I should be 50% above :)
I can't find equally geared warrior now for testing since Broken Promise and expertise gear from Naxx 25 is a bad thing (reaching 2k DPS easily while tanking now)

But I saw some cow running with Last Laugh, hope we can get into the same raid one day.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:52 am

Playdoh wrote:
DeadMilliken wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:FOOL!


Code: Select all
#showtooltip
/cancelaura Divine Shield
/cancelaura Divine Intervention
/cancelaura Hand of Protection
/cancelaura Hand of Salvation
/cast Holy Shield
/y FOOL! YOU ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD!!!


Fixed dat for you


Fix'd again
fixt ur fix
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Postby Rasmfrackn » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:08 pm

Worldie wrote:Paladin's threat scales only with damage done, there's no innate threat in any of our ability. Warriors and druids still got innate threat on their skills.
I think Death Knight's threat also scales with just raw damage.

100% damage scaling will always be > x% damage scaling


Wait, really? I thought they were doing away with that crap. Everyone should be scaling with damage alone...

And since we're scaling at 270% threat from damage instead of 200% threat from damage, our dps will necessarily always have to be lower to balance tps, sadly.

On the flip side, do we *really* scale better? Just because it seems like we should since we have no inherent threat adders doesn't mean we will. You know Blizzard. :)

It would be pretty complex to model, but it would be very enlightening to see how all 4 tanks scale with, say, 10 of each stat, like on maxdps.

10 AP scales our abilities by how much TPS? A warrior? A druid? A DK?
10 hit? 10 expertise? 10 crit? etc.

It would have to take things like glyphs and metas and other dependable things into account, of course. Those will be pretty standard.
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:28 pm

Putting out less dps than other tanks, in the end, simply makes us less desireable.

Like I stated earlier, all dps matters, there can be no possible justification for tuning one tank with lower dps than other tanks, when making them the same is fairly trivial.

If we are putting out to much threat, lower the freakin magnifiers...

There is no reason to screw us over in DPS output
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Postby Kellann » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:35 pm

Macha wrote:Yes, we do less threat than druids and warriors.
No, it's not an issue atm - so far threat is no problem in any instance for any tank. A dev stated that they don't want to be threat as important(sadly), that might be why.


If threat's not important, they should lower RF and raise our dps to be in line with the other tanks.
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Postby Fridmarr » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:35 pm

Rasmfrackn wrote:
Worldie wrote:Paladin's threat scales only with damage done, there's no innate threat in any of our ability. Warriors and druids still got innate threat on their skills.
I think Death Knight's threat also scales with just raw damage.

100% damage scaling will always be > x% damage scaling


Wait, really? I thought they were doing away with that crap. Everyone should be scaling with damage alone...

And since we're scaling at 270% threat from damage instead of 200% threat from damage, our dps will necessarily always have to be lower to balance tps, sadly.

On the flip side, do we *really* scale better? Just because it seems like we should since we have no inherent threat adders doesn't mean we will. You know Blizzard. :)

It would be pretty complex to model, but it would be very enlightening to see how all 4 tanks scale with, say, 10 of each stat, like on maxdps.

10 AP scales our abilities by how much TPS? A warrior? A druid? A DK?
10 hit? 10 expertise? 10 crit? etc.

It would have to take things like glyphs and metas and other dependable things into account, of course. Those will be pretty standard.


Well I think GC has mentioned our scaling because it's all damage based, and so it'll all improve as our gear improves. Also, along with scaling on AP, we also scale slightly on stamina and can double dip a bit from raid buffs.
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Postby snowwight » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:06 pm

Does anyone have any numbers? I know psiven has a spreadsheet, and I found a warrior tps spreadsheet on tankspot, but it's a little confusing and it would probably take me some time to get good answers out of them.

Right now we have one experienced tankadin's report, and that's valuable, but, as the saying goes, the plural of anecdote is not data.
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Postby fiorina » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:17 pm

snowwight wrote:Does anyone have any numbers? I know psiven has a spreadsheet, and I found a warrior tps spreadsheet on tankspot, but it's a little confusing and it would probably take me some time to get good answers out of them.

Right now we have one experienced tankadin's report, and that's valuable, but, as the saying goes, the plural of anecdote is not data.


Well, problem is to find a similarly geared warrior to compare. I happen to have 2 Naxx runs with such, so I posted most static fight as an example.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... ht=#250015

You have DPS(warr did 2400 most of the tries before), TPS and Threat breakdown there. Gear was 90% identical.

Next time I can record more data including log, but as I said, its hard to find matching chars lately.

Actually it was whine about HotR being sucky and contributing to my threat less than melee swings which is too bad for 51-point talent. Threat issue was rather minor I was just wondering why my numbers are lower again for no reason.
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