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11 Point protection Talent

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11 Point protection Talent

Postby Rupheo » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:37 pm

At this point I'm sure everyone has their own particular favorite idea for what our 11 pointer should be, but, regardless, I humbly submit mine own for critique:


Divine Will
Rank 0/1
Requires 10 points in Protection

Allows the paladin to cast two blessings upon themselves.


I think it would be fairly simple and straight forward, even elegant perhaps. It solves the problem of Protection not wanting to take kings, and provides incentive for other non-Protection builds to take 11 points into it as well. It provides good PVE benefit with little impact on PVP except, perhaps, if the other team lacks someone to dispel.

On the subject of PVP, as much as I hate to admit it, PVP affects PVE and vice versa. Thus, talents that would prove very useful in PVE, a fear break, true spell interupt, etc.. would prove disastrous to PVP balance. In fact, I would go so far as to say we would end up drowning in the tears of the endless QQ. With that in mind, I hoped that something like Divine Will would prove most excellent for one aspect with minimal impact on the other.

I see that I'm starting to ramble. Anyways, thoughts or comments would be welcome.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:39 pm

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Postby Rupheo » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:52 pm

Snake-Aes wrote:WTS Heavy Netherweave Bandage


Well I can't say it's very useful, but thank you anyway for the reply.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:54 pm

Sorry man but that's addressing the symptom, not the problem.
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Postby Rupheo » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:57 pm

What would you say the problem is? Kings not being baseline?

I would love to have it baseline myself, but given that kings has been in all 3 trees at one time or another, I have a hard time seeing that happening. Blizzard just keeps passing it from tree to tree. If that's the framework they have set out, then why not try to make the best of it.
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Postby Lore » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:59 pm

The problem is that the Blessing system hasn't adapted well to the changes made to the game over the past 3 years. It worked nicely in a 40-man situation where each class only wanted two blessings, it doesn't work nearly as well in a 10-man situation where every player wants two.
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Postby Sabindeus » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:59 pm

Rupheo wrote:What would you say the problem is? Kings not being baseline?

I would love to have it baseline myself, but given that kings has been in all 3 trees at one time or another, I have a hard time seeing that happening. Blizzard just keeps passing it from tree to tree. If that's the framework they have set out, then why not try to make the best of it.


Kings was never in Holy.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:59 pm

Rupheo wrote:What would you say the problem is? Kings not being baseline?

I would love to have it baseline myself, but given that kings has been in all 3 trees at one time or another, I have a hard time seeing that happening. Blizzard just keeps passing it from tree to tree. If that's the framework they have set out, then why not try to make the best of it.
The problem is we have 4 blessings and three specs. 2 of those blessings must be talented and - lol - are in the same tree.

The solution is not making the 6th talent to get both blessings and actually use both.
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Postby crabcrouton » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:08 pm

I agree with Lore.

In fact, the entire buff flavor of the Paladin class hasn't stood up well to the changes of time. BoSanct is the newest iteration of this that rears its head. It forces us into a position of being balanced around having it but in a 25 man situation, we're the perpetual OT because it can be handed out.

GC has said that they are considering changes to BoSanct but once again, that's just bandaging the symptom.
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Postby tinalt » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:27 pm

we've agreed that the suggested 11 point talent isn't worth it, so let me suggest a new one.


Main Tank
Rank 0/1
Requires 10 points in Protection

Gives the paladin 1 HP, 1 Defense, 1 Dodge , 1 Parry, and 1 Block rating more then the highest warrior in the group.


this one talent point would stop all of the QQ in this thread in one fell swoop. it should be implemented for no other reason then that.
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Postby Rupheo » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:43 pm

Lore wrote:The problem is that the Blessing system hasn't adapted well to the changes made to the game over the past 3 years. It worked nicely in a 40-man situation where each class only wanted two blessings, it doesn't work nearly as well in a 10-man situation where every player wants two.


Arguably though, the situation has changed with the removal of Blessing of Salvation. We're going from a situation where 3 blessings is optimal for most classes and specs: Might/Wis, Salv, Kings. To one were two is optimal: Might/Wis, Kings. (Yes, tanks and some hybrids are different, but on the whole I would say this holds true.) What this means though, at least in my mind, is that the demand for Kings is going to be much greater than it is currently. I would wager than in either 10 or 25 man raids, if you have two paladins present it will be expected that one or both of you should have kings, regardless of your spec.

It's not going to matter how suboptimal it is for you personally, the raid will have to come first. If you always raid with the same 25 people, you always have 3 paladins, and you can talk amongst yourselves to insure one of you will have it, then that's awesome for you. I, personally, am not lucky enough to always have 3 paladins in my raids. I don't want to get stuck holding the ball on who has to cast kings, because that means that I won't be getting it unless I forgo Sanctuary. It's to those ends that I came up with the a fore mentioned talent. If I'm going to get stuck taking Kings anyway, I would happily spend the 5 points for kings, 1 for Divine Will and 1 for Blessing of Sanctuary to insure that I could always have both on myself.
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Postby Cedul » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:56 pm

Despite the opinions expressed in the above posts, I think that the OP's idea is a good one. Refreshing, not overpowered, yet effective. I'd spec for it, and not just because we don't have another 11 pointer.
Last edited by Cedul on Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 11 Point protection Talent

Postby steadypal » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:56 pm

Rupheo wrote:

Divine Will
Rank 0/1
Requires 10 points in Protection

Allows the paladin to cast two blessings upon themselves.





WTB
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Postby Rupheo » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:00 pm

Tinalt wrote:we've agreed that the suggested 11 point talent isn't worth it, so let me suggest a new one.


Main Tank
Rank 0/1
Requires 10 points in Protection

Gives the paladin 1 HP, 1 Defense, 1 Dodge , 1 Parry, and 1 Block rating more then the highest warrior in the group.


this one talent point would stop all of the QQ in this thread in one fell swoop. it should be implemented for no other reason then that.


To be honest, this is neither helpful, nor clever. I'm putting forth an honest idea and trying to discuss it rationally. If you care to join in the discussion that's great.
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Postby Elsie » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:04 pm

Blinding Light 1/1
Infuses your weapon with holy light and discharges on impact. Deals twice weapon damage per second and renders target blind to all targets but you for 8 seconds.
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