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Wotlk Leveling: Prot or Retri?

All things related to the expansion

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Postby uke » Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:38 am

Macha wrote:Ret isn't that much faster to make me forsake my beloved shield. I played 4 Paladins in 4 games only with shields, I will not change this now.

Sure, it's a bit slower, but whatever. I'm going to be fastest to 80 anyway, and then have to wait for half of the guild, so it doesn't matter much.


Hey man, if you like it, then more power to you :D

I say, though to "not knock it till you try it".

I tried it for some lulz, and I ended up hooked. I say buy some cheapie gear and give it a shot with 3.0. If you don't like it, then back to prot you go 8)
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Postby Nalyn » Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:07 am

Got full S4 at this point, minus weapon (zul'jin 2 hander) and shoulders, so going to be going ret for leveling. Still got my current tank gear if I need it, but I'm also way beyond uncritable in my arena gear, least in pve, so assuming the mobs in instances aren't hitting stupidly hard, just throw on a shield with a dps 1hander, and wade into the fray.

I see little to no reason to level prot this time around (leveled prot originally, and with BC), I know everything is going to be overcrowded, so the likelihood of finding large packs of undisturbed mobs, to collect and AE, is slim.
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Postby EvilNuff » Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:38 am

Macha wrote:Ret isn't that much faster to make me forsake my beloved shield. I played 4 Paladins in 4 games only with shields, I will not change this now.

Sure, it's a bit slower, but whatever. I'm going to be fastest to 80 anyway, and then have to wait for half of the guild, so it doesn't matter much.


You and I have had significantly different experiences in beta then. :)

I copied level 70 Shaman, Rogue, Warrior and Paladin to beta. Of those 4 Ret Pally was by *far* the fastest leveler. In fact the order I would put them in is:
Ret pally > Mut Rog > Enh Shm > Prot Pally > Prot War > Fury war.
(And other specs I have not tried.)
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Postby Macha » Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:59 am

uke wrote:I say, though to "not knock it till you try it".


I have a full BT level ret set - it's just not as fun for me not to have a shield :(
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Postby Rasmfrackn » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:02 pm

I consider between 2 and 4 GCDs per kill to be significantly faster than killing anything as prot. :)
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Postby Rena » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:06 pm

Leveling on Beta 70-80 every other lvl i would switch between ret and prot. Leveling speed i found ret to be faster but prot is still good for lvling. As ret and prot you could solo elites pretty easily if your decked out in BC gear that is. Though i would have to say 70-75 as prot is much slower than ret because your dont have ShoR which can do a lot of dmg :P.
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Postby PsiVen » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:38 pm

If you want to do a fair amount of instances, consider whether your tanking gear is good enough to do it as ret. Odds are if you've ever tanked a TBC heroic, you're geared enough to ret-tank WotLK leveling instances. If you're not sure, you might want to stay prot and learn the new mechanics as you go.

If all you want to do is grind in instances, stay prot, you'll be more efficient at it. I'll warn you now though, it'll get old fast. Instances have a lot less AoE trash to clear for exp than we're used to in TBC.

Otherwise, go Ret for questing. It's much, much faster to kill individuals and the thin-respawn market of a new continent will be unfriendly to AoE grinders.
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Postby Kelaan » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:42 pm

PsiVen wrote:If you want to do a fair amount of instances, consider whether your tanking gear is good enough to do it as ret... go Ret for questing. It's much, much faster to kill individuals and the thin-respawn market of a new continent will be unfriendly to AoE grinders.


Crap. This means I need to l2p as ret, now. :( Figuring out where the heck to put my abilities will be Fun Times... ugh. :(
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Postby Velgarn » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:55 pm

Kelaan wrote:Crap. This means I need to l2p as ret, now. :( Figuring out where the heck to put my abilities will be Fun Times... ugh. :(


Actually it should be quite easy:
#showtooltip
/cast !Attack
/castsequence reset=6 Crusader Strike, Divine Storm, Judgement of Wisdom
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()

The !Attack should prevent you from using an ability mid-swing, and resetting your swing timer ( <3 you hunters). By the time you use CS/DS, GCD of talented judgement should be ready. Replace the judgement with your choice for grinding, and apply seal of choice. Have fun. :lol:

That said, I really wish they'd not remove spells in your book / remove spells from your bars when you respec. That way I could setup action bars for all three specs and just switch whenever I respec instead of having to redo tank spells / blessings etc back all the time.

... or maybe macros based on spec... like [spec:ret] how war can do [stance:1] [stance:2] lolz
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Postby uke » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:09 pm

Kelaan wrote:
PsiVen wrote:If you want to do a fair amount of instances, consider whether your tanking gear is good enough to do it as ret... go Ret for questing. It's much, much faster to kill individuals and the thin-respawn market of a new continent will be unfriendly to AoE grinders.


Crap. This means I need to l2p as ret, now. :( Figuring out where the heck to put my abilities will be Fun Times... ugh. :(


Isn't that the whole appeal of the game, to learn new things?

It's honestly not very hard. Don't limit yourself from trying new (and in many cases, better) things because you're afraid of learning them. I mean seriously, why limit yourself to 1/3 of your character's potential because you're scared of learning new things? I'm still going to learn how to play as Holy....someday.

For starters, start reading up on retpaladin.com. They have several PVE/PVP 3.0 builds up to learn from. Read Baelor's blog at e4ae.blogspot.com for a lot of good beginner info as well.

Think of your self as an arms warrior who has infinite mana, lots more burst, and can contuously heal himself :P . Learn to play offensively as opposed to defensively.
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Postby Macha » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:25 pm

uke wrote:Isn't that the whole appeal of the game, to learn new things?


Is it? Most people do the same over and over again. The whole PVP concept is essentially that.
Raids too - few fights really are new.

Wow essentially seems to be "more of the same old".
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Postby Kelaan » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:32 pm

uke wrote:
Kelaan wrote:Crap. This means I need to l2p as ret, now. :( Figuring out where the heck to put my abilities will be Fun Times... ugh. :(


Isn't that the whole appeal of the game, to learn new things?

It's honestly not very hard. Don't limit yourself...
For starters, start reading up on retpaladin.com. They have several PVE/PVP 3.0 builds up to learn from. Read Baelor's blog at e4ae.blogspot.com for a lot of good beginner info as well.


Haha... :) yeah. I was mostly joking. I don't yet have the rotation down right (CrusaderStrike BEFORE judgement ... I think?), and such, so I'm not really maximizing my DPS, but generally I am OK.

It's mainly things like, "I no longer need 2 ranks of consecrate, holy shield here .... and maybe I should move my SoCrusader over ....". Except, what I really should do is hit PTR and figure where the hell I want my 3 judgements to go. :)
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Postby PsiVen » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:33 pm

Velgarn wrote:Actually it should be quite easy:
#showtooltip
/cast !Attack
/castsequence reset=6 Crusader Strike, Divine Storm, Judgement of Wisdom
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()

The !Attack should prevent you from using an ability mid-swing, and resetting your swing timer ( <3 you hunters). By the time you use CS/DS, GCD of talented judgement should be ready. Replace the judgement with your choice for grinding, and apply seal of choice. Have fun. :lol:

That said, I really wish they'd not remove spells in your book / remove spells from your bars when you respec. That way I could setup action bars for all three specs and just switch whenever I respec instead of having to redo tank spells / blessings etc back all the time.

... or maybe macros based on spec... like [spec:ret] how war can do [stance:1] [stance:2] lolz


With the exception of AoW procced FoLs (currently presumed to be a bug), instant casts do not reset paladin swing timers. And I think both Crusader Strike and Judgement trigger autoattack. A macro like this is totally unnecessary for ret dps, and the current theorycrafting seems to be that nobody can come up with a better way to do it than First Come First Serve (aka mash buttons as they come up). One macro you will want to have though:

#showtooltip Judgement of Justice
/use Name Of Awesome AP Trinket
/cast Avenging Wrath
/cast Judgement of Justice

I agree, it'd be nice if I could set up macros and not have to redo my bars to respec :)
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Postby EvilNuff » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:48 pm

Kelaan wrote:
PsiVen wrote:If you want to do a fair amount of instances, consider whether your tanking gear is good enough to do it as ret... go Ret for questing. It's much, much faster to kill individuals and the thin-respawn market of a new continent will be unfriendly to AoE grinders.


Crap. This means I need to l2p as ret, now. :( Figuring out where the heck to put my abilities will be Fun Times... ugh. :(


Its trivial...Judge Wisdom, CS, DS, Hammer...pop instant heals when needed and the proc is up and pop divine plea when you're down a little in health. If you want to aoe as ret, just throw in cons instead of CS. :)
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Postby uke » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:55 pm

PsiVen wrote:
Velgarn wrote:Actually it should be quite easy:
#showtooltip
/cast !Attack
/castsequence reset=6 Crusader Strike, Divine Storm, Judgement of Wisdom
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()

The !Attack should prevent you from using an ability mid-swing, and resetting your swing timer ( <3 you hunters). By the time you use CS/DS, GCD of talented judgement should be ready. Replace the judgement with your choice for grinding, and apply seal of choice. Have fun. :lol:

That said, I really wish they'd not remove spells in your book / remove spells from your bars when you respec. That way I could setup action bars for all three specs and just switch whenever I respec instead of having to redo tank spells / blessings etc back all the time.

... or maybe macros based on spec... like [spec:ret] how war can do [stance:1] [stance:2] lolz


With the exception of AoW procced FoLs (currently presumed to be a bug), instant casts do not reset paladin swing timers. And I think both Crusader Strike and Judgement trigger autoattack. A macro like this is totally unnecessary for ret dps, and the current theorycrafting seems to be that nobody can come up with a better way to do it than First Come First Serve (aka mash buttons as they come up). One macro you will want to have though:

#showtooltip Judgement of Justice
/use Name Of Awesome AP Trinket
/cast Avenging Wrath
/cast Judgement of Justice

I agree, it'd be nice if I could set up macros and not have to redo my bars to respec :)


I have a similar macro tied to my Crusader Strike. What does Judgement of Justice do to affect it besides removing any speed boost effects (in PVP, at least)?
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