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Dual Specialization (Update)

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Is Dual Speccing a good idea?

Yes, its Awesome
27
69%
Yes, but im concerned on balance
6
15%
Not bothered
1
3%
No, it needs more restrictions
4
10%
No, terrible idea altogether
1
3%
 
Total votes : 39

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:49 pm

Grimmal wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:Not at all, you're just one of the only ones who has irrationally jumped to that conclusion.


You've totally lost me here. Maybe it's do to my having had very little sleep today, maybe it's not. But yeah, totally lost me.


It's like this, saying...

Am I one of the the only ones who isn't looking at this in terror?


implies that many folks are looking at this in terror. Which is an irrational, knee jerk reaction. It's a QQ post in reverse.
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Postby Drathian » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:49 pm

Sabindeus wrote:Ok Re: The cost discussion

Originally 50G was supposed to be a prohibitive cost for relearning your talents as it was intended to be a permanent choice. As the game evolved, it became clear that re-speccing frequently was something that players enjoyed, and that it was prohibitively hard to make every tree competitive in all aspects of gameplay. The cost, in the BC era, is not a big deal, sure. But that was never the point. The point was that re-speccing frequently is something they originally never intended, and now they are changing their minds and making it a normal part of the game. This means that they will remove the cost of respeccing for this new DUal Spec feature because it is intended for you to change specs.

See?


Fridmarr wrote:If we can have 2 specs, one of mine won't be holy.


Both of these deserved to be QFT.

This game is built around the capacity to change.

Welcome to change.
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Postby Grimmal » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:07 pm

Fridmarr wrote:implies that many folks are looking at this in terror. Which is an irrational, knee jerk reaction. It's a QQ post in reverse.


Not really sure how it's a irrational knee jerk reaction to look at see that on this board and others many people are already talking about how this decision is horrible and will hurt the game. Or discussing what they would toss onto it to make respeccing still be a pain to limit people from doing it because for some odd reason they don't believe in respecs.

Maybe I shouldn't have said, 'Am I one of the only ones', on this forum but I just got done reading a few others and came here and was seeing simliar posts that I had found there. People scared that there class will no longer be wanted because Hybrids can respec in more roles, people scared that they will be forced out of tank roles to healing roles, etc.

For some reason plenty of people are looking at this in terror, you can find posts here and elsewhere showing it.
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:27 pm

Grimmal wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:implies that many folks are looking at this in terror. Which is an irrational, knee jerk reaction. It's a QQ post in reverse.


Not really sure how it's a irrational knee jerk reaction to look at see that on this board and others many people are already talking about how this decision is horrible and will hurt the game. Or discussing what they would toss onto it to make respeccing still be a pain to limit people from doing it because for some odd reason they don't believe in respecs.

Maybe I shouldn't have said, 'Am I one of the only ones', on this forum but I just got done reading a few others and came here and was seeing simliar posts that I had found there. People scared that there class will no longer be wanted because Hybrids can respec in more roles, people scared that they will be forced out of tank roles to healing roles, etc.

For some reason plenty of people are looking at this in terror, you can find posts here and elsewhere showing it.


There was maybe one post on this thread, and the person even said, "Am I the only one who is afraid of Dual-Specing inside raids or between fights?", which implies it wasn't a common thought, and he's correct. I don't really see any other threads about the topic either, most of the discussion was speculation about the mechanics of the impending change.

If folks are QQing someplace else, then accuse them of being terrorized on those boards. QQ posts and posts insinuating QQ when it doesn't exist tend to derail threads into flame fests that aren't useful for anyone.

In any event, enough time has been wasted on this already, so lets just return to the topic at hand.
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Postby Maihes » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:31 pm

Personally coming from a raiding Ret that enjoys Tanking ALOT (and has debated with tanking being main spec in exp)

This will be VERY useful.

Even to the classes listed previously in this topic, Rogue, Warlock, Hunter, and Mage. This will be useful. some classes like Paladins and Shamans may use this MAINLY for PvE fight to fight or w/e. Those classes have VERY distinct specs for PvP (as do Paladins and Shamans etc, not saying we do not spec differently) so even if they do not use it in PvE -> PvE, it will be used for PvE -> PvP.

Paladins are lucky and can do PvE -> PvE (Same spec different job), PvE -> PvE (Different specs [Prot -> Ret for ex] ), as well as PvE -> PvP


Gratz people can make alot of gold easily day to day now. Some people have a busy schedule, class and work and raid etc, not to mention farming mats for raid consumables.
Farming extra gold just to respec in between fights (Kalec -> Brut -> Felmyst alone require a big shift in raid set up for many guilds) can be extra WORK in a GAME.

No I am not one of the people with 200g to my name, nor am I one of the AH users that have 100k gold to my name.


This will let guilds use people based off skill more then spec for alot of encounters.
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Postby Macawber » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:34 pm

solieu wrote:Am I the only one who is afraid of Dual-Specing inside raids or between fights?

I almost posted this exact same thing. You could argue that guilds can force you to do this today, but if they do they're either stuck with a crappy prot paladin healing in healing gear, or else they have to wait around for you to hearth, respec, and be summoned. I do think there'll be more things along the line of, "oh since you're already Holy would you mind healing for the next few fights too?"

Personally I hate healing (and I'm terrible at it) and will never go Holy full time. But I do carry healing gear and I'm willing to heal for an occasional fight if necessary. It's hard for me to justify not having Holy as one of my dual specs if I ever heal, even occasionally. I'd almost have to say I'm not willing to heal under any circumstances ever, and it might be hard to find a good guild with that attitude.
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:54 pm

Macawber wrote:
solieu wrote:Am I the only one who is afraid of Dual-Specing inside raids or between fights?

I almost posted this exact same thing. You could argue that guilds can force you to do this today, but if they do they're either stuck with a crappy prot paladin healing in healing gear, or else they have to wait around for you to hearth, respec, and be summoned. I do think there'll be more things along the line of, "oh since you're already Holy would you mind healing for the next few fights too?"

Personally I hate healing (and I'm terrible at it) and will never go Holy full time. But I do carry healing gear and I'm willing to heal for an occasional fight if necessary. It's hard for me to justify not having Holy as one of my dual specs if I ever heal, even occasionally. I'd almost have to say I'm not willing to heal under any circumstances ever, and it might be hard to find a good guild with that attitude.


Well there's a lot of fights in which having extra DPS is useful since you tend to already have the healers you need for a fight. If it's two spec, it's going to be a choice either way, in TBC healing is was basically the only option, it's definitely not the case in wrath.
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Postby Grothnir » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:00 pm

Sabindeus wrote:This means that they will remove the cost of respeccing for this new DUal Spec feature because it is intended for you to change specs.

See?

Feh. Changing specs is for sissy weasels who can't commit to doing one thing really well ;)

Oh, and for people who want to PVP. Or farm. Or whatever.

In seriousness, though, you're over-stating it. Hyperbolizing, even. It's not that we're "intended" to change spec. It's that they've identified a large segment of the game population who simply likes to change spec. And to service their audience, they are making that available more readily.

That's a VERY far cry from "intended to change specs."

For example, outside of my warrior, I don't think I've ever wanted the capacity to have more than one spec. I only enjoy my paladin as Prot. I only enjoy my priest as Holy/Disc. I only enjoy my mage as Frost. And so on. Dual specs with these classes will simply give me the ability to move around 10-15 points for some extra specialization when I want it.

Telling me that it is intended that we are to change specs in any serious, regular way is telling me that I'm having bad wrong fun.
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Postby Ilara » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:30 pm

I like the idea of being able to switch for PvP/PvE/Farming, but switching in raids etc? I'm heavily against that idea. as was said in earlier posts, I don't intend to switch my class spec just so they can shove a warrior or whatever down front for a single tank fight. I plain and simple refuse.
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Postby Maihes » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:09 pm

Ilara wrote:I like the idea of being able to switch for PvP/PvE/Farming, but switching in raids etc? I'm heavily against that idea. as was said in earlier posts, I don't intend to switch my class spec just so they can shove a warrior or whatever down front for a single tank fight. I plain and simple refuse.


Quit thinking about yourself?

Who said that dual spec would make the Prot Pally go holy to heal the Warrior? NO ONE, it gives raid leaders the ability to TAKE people based off SKILL and not so much on spec. Some guilds do not have a Prot pally but have a good Ret Pally with a great Prot Set (my circumstances). And I do not just spec Prot for Gimmicks...

Again if you honestly think your guild would make what you stated in your post happen, find a new guild.
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Postby Amarant_Pally » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:21 pm

I have to agree that there's a lot of the "QQ I'll have to spec Holy on 1-tank fights."

Any guild that's willing to min/max to the point that they'd have a trash-tank spec Holy on the fly (dual-spec) is also willing to min/max and wait 2 minutes whiles you hearth, respec, get summoned, and heal anyway (pre-dual spec).

I'm (fortunately enough; and ignoring the Warrior's bad attitude for the moment) in a guild that just let me slap on Holy gear for 1-tank boss fights. If I can spec Holy on the fly to help off-heal a bit better (I'm not a trained or quick healer, but the heals I do toss sometimes matter), then that's fine with me. However, given the closer "gap" between tanks, maybe I can make a stronger case in certain situations on why I should tank, and not the Warrior (my guild absolutely loved the "Pally-solo-tank-Kalecgos" method, for example).

How your guild(s) handle who tanks, who heals, who respecs, who doesn't isn't a function of the game...it's a function of people's mentalities, and sometimes you need to get away from bad ones.
Last edited by Amarant_Pally on Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Yinramu » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:24 pm

IMO it is only a matter of time before they allow dual classing in raids. Soon, my Shamaladiestuidage will be wanted for every raid!

Personally, my hope is that they make it inconvenient to switch your spec during a raid - I want people to still have to make a trip to town, stand next to someone specific, and go through at least 4 prompts (2 of them unnecessary dialogue, and one of them recommending they find a new guild because they're making them switch specs), along with a cooldown of 24 hours.

I'm only not serious in about half of this post. I like this idea, but I'm worried about the implementation, even from a small friendly guild standpoint.
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Postby Karock » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:41 pm

Spec ret and prot or dual prot specs (i'm not really sure why you would do this but...) and your guild can't say "oh hey can you switch to holy??" problem solved. The bottom line for me is, I'll throw on healing gear to heal but I won't give up speccing ret because my guild would want me to heal full time while I didn't enjoy it.

Warriors can spec to dps, you can spec to dps, no reason to have a warrior tank over you then besides that they would anyways (and if that's so and you're unhappy with it you need to move on to a new guild).

I guess it might suck for people in high end guilds who hate paladin tanks but stay in the guild for the gear, to see the content or whatever, but I can't feel too bad for you when you've already sold yourself that way.

For the majority of you... you can raid in 10 mans now! If you want to be a main tank and no one will let you, start a guild.
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Postby Chunes » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:50 pm

This change will not hurt the game.

this change will not force paladins into healing roles in 1 tank fights.

Blizzard has stated time and again that their aim is to make it so that you can invite who ever you think is a good player to your raids (within reason, tanks/dps/heals will of course have to be covered one way or the other). I fail to see how dual specs will hinder this.

If it's a 1 tank fight, you need one of the two tanks to respec, just have the prot war go fury and have the goddamn shadow priest go holy. or ret pally go holy, or feral druid go resto, or ele shaman go resto.

for fucks sake guys, we as a raid have more options now than we ever did before. stop freaking out that your supposedly hardcore uber-min/max obssessed guild might ask you to spec holy now and then.

if you don't want to heal ever, don't collect a heal set or as it has been stated several times: find a new guild.
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Postby crabcrouton » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:14 pm

A lot of people seem to get it into their heads that they rolled a Spec, not a class. This change will be a major wake up call against that kind of thinking.

For example, rolling a Warrior and never expecting to ever tank is kinda loopy imo.

On 1 tank bosses, the tank that wants to do it the most is usually the best one to do it. When someone enjoys something more, he'll always do a better job at it than the guy who's kinda 'meh' about it. He's the guy who spent more time learning the fight, and min/maxing his buffs/rotations/gear. He's goddamn hungry to tank. Be that guy.

Just make sure you're the one who wants to MT the most and that'll guarantee you the spot.
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