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Dual Specialization (Update)

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Is Dual Speccing a good idea?

Yes, its Awesome
27
69%
Yes, but im concerned on balance
6
15%
Not bothered
1
3%
No, it needs more restrictions
4
10%
No, terrible idea altogether
1
3%
 
Total votes : 39

Postby steadypal » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:04 pm

Ubung wrote:Yeah thats why I said earlier it would be cool but I didnt imagine for a second that it would be like that. This really gives hybrid classes a distinct advantage. Effectively pallies can be main dps, main healer or main tank all in one raid depending on the needs. Kinda overpowered.



maybe it'd have some sort of cooldown, like an hour or so?
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Postby halabar » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:05 pm

Fridmarr wrote:So then, why would we ever have tanks in a OT DPS role? Shouldn't they just have a backup DPS spec and gear and then switch.


The question will become, who is more viable to switch specs? This also applies for healer/dps switches as well, or even healer/tank (but that requires the biggest gear swap).

I really don't see it useful for rogues, locks, mages, and hunters, I actually see it hurting those classes. Why bring a rogue when you can bring a ret pally that can switch to heal or OT depending on the fight? Everyone else should be able to use it.
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:10 pm

Ubung wrote:Yeah thats why I said earlier it would be cool but I didnt imagine for a second that it would be like that. This really gives hybrid classes a distinct advantage. Effectively pallies can be main dps, main healer or main tank all in one raid depending on the needs. Kinda overpowered.


Assuming it's two specs (dual) then you couldn't switch between all 3 roles, and really it's easy enough to hearth respec and get summoned right back inside anyhow, while the raid is clearing trash to the next boss. I'm still undecided though, I see lots of good and bad from this, but I guess given the ability to hearth and respec now, perhaps most of the bad already exists...
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Postby Tev » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:23 pm

halabar wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:So then, why would we ever have tanks in a OT DPS role? Shouldn't they just have a backup DPS spec and gear and then switch.


The question will become, who is more viable to switch specs? This also applies for healer/dps switches as well, or even healer/tank (but that requires the biggest gear swap).

I really don't see it useful for rogues, locks, mages, and hunters, I actually see it hurting those classes. Why bring a rogue when you can bring a ret pally that can switch to heal or OT depending on the fight? Everyone else should be able to use it.


This is insanely nice for rogues, who can go full combat for raids, then sub for pvp, or mages who can go fire for raids then frost for pvp. The point isn't chosing a ret pally who can offtank in place of a rogue, its chosing a prot pally (or warrior) who can change a few pieces of gear and swap their spec and not be taking up space in the raid as sub par damage.

You can have a priest go from holy to shadow, or a druid go from balance to resto. It adds options for players, flexibility that doesn't currently exist, and will help players secure their raid spot so they aren't sitting outside waiting for their time to shine.

As long as they you can't A) use it in combat (or for 5 min after you exit combat), or B) use it in Arenas (and possibly BGs) I don't see how it would be overpowering. Your not adding anything more than what already exists for 50g and a trip to the trainer, your just making it more convenient for the players/classes who frequently switch for one reason or another. And from what it sounds, you will have 2 set specs instead of 1, so it not like you can swap points around at will on the fly, you still have to make the choice of Tank and DPS, Tank and Heal, Heal and DPS, 2 Heal/Tank/DPS trees for different situations (I wouldn't be supprised to see many Prot Pallies chosing 2 different tank specs for MT/OT/AoE etc. etc.).

In the end, it will let raids keep the more skilled players in the raid and not have to boot them because X encounter needs only 1 tank, or 1 less healer than usuall, or more dps.
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Postby Mithos » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:36 pm

Switching between fights means it's probably going to be on a 5-15 minute CD not useable in combat. Pretty awesome tbh, now they just need to do it for glyphs! (swappable not at a trainer...)
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Postby solieu » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:38 pm

Am I the only one who is afraid of Dual-Specing inside raids or between fights?

In a nutshell, given prior experiences, I am afraid that I will be marginalized into being an eternal offtank merely because I can spec into both healing and tanking, reducing me to a trash- and second- tank behind the warrior instead of remaining main tank.

If I wanted on the fly role switching, I would have rolled a druid.

I don't mind the idea of being able to switch when it's necessary for a reduced cost, or being able to switch on off-days to something for PVP or whatever.. but I'd rather not be healing for every single one-tank fight.

Maybe I'm taking it too far? I really need to have some more Blizzard word on this situation in order to calm me down..

Maybe respec stations before bosses or in "safe zones" (central hub in Naxx, Ashtongue in BT)? Inscription-made scrolls? A big cooldown? A long cast time? Something to deter abuse of the system and my hard work to be a prot paladin.
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Postby Mithos » Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:22 pm

If you put effort into being a good tank and your guild forces you to tank trash and respec healing for every single boss, find a new guild.
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:44 pm

solieu wrote:Am I the only one who is afraid of Dual-Specing inside raids or between fights?

In a nutshell, given prior experiences, I am afraid that I will be marginalized into being an eternal offtank merely because I can spec into both healing and tanking, reducing me to a trash- and second- tank behind the warrior instead of remaining main tank.

If I wanted on the fly role switching, I would have rolled a druid.

I don't mind the idea of being able to switch when it's necessary for a reduced cost, or being able to switch on off-days to something for PVP or whatever.. but I'd rather not be healing for every single one-tank fight.

Maybe I'm taking it too far? I really need to have some more Blizzard word on this situation in order to calm me down..

Maybe respec stations before bosses or in "safe zones" (central hub in Naxx, Ashtongue in BT)? Inscription-made scrolls? A big cooldown? A long cast time? Something to deter abuse of the system and my hard work to be a prot paladin.


If we can have 2 specs, one of mine won't be holy.
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Postby Mithos » Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:45 pm

Fridmarr wrote:If we can have 2 specs, one of mine won't be holy.
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Postby Grimmal » Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:48 pm

Am I one of the the only ones who isn't looking at this in terror? Everything that people are pointing out as fears already exists in the current Live game. The only difference is that instead of respeccing in zone, you have to use a port/summon. Sure those same people who already min/max in the game will do it with this, but they do it with every aspec of the game so it's nothing new. These are the same people who realize that constantly switch people in out and raids anyways, nothing will have changed in that aspect.

In the end what this does is free up some time and choices for raiders, and makes the game for those who don't raid that much more enjoyable. My warlock will have two PvE specs (Affliction and Demonology), my Paladin will have two PvE specs (Holy and Retribution), and my Hunter and Rogue will have a PvE farm and PvP specs. Win win imo.

If you are afraid that your guild is going to screw you, get a new guild as they are going to screw you regardless of this change.
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:11 pm

Grimmal wrote:Am I one of the the only ones who isn't looking at this in terror? Everything that people are pointing out as fears already exists in the current Live game. The only difference is that instead of respeccing in zone, you have to use a port/summon. Sure those same people who already min/max in the game will do it with this, but they do it with every aspec of the game so it's nothing new. These are the same people who realize that constantly switch people in out and raids anyways, nothing will have changed in that aspect.

In the end what this does is free up some time and choices for raiders, and makes the game for those who don't raid that much more enjoyable. My warlock will have two PvE specs (Affliction and Demonology), my Paladin will have two PvE specs (Holy and Retribution), and my Hunter and Rogue will have a PvE farm and PvP specs. Win win imo.

If you are afraid that your guild is going to screw you, get a new guild as they are going to screw you regardless of this change.


Not at all, you're just one of the only ones who has irrationally jumped to that conclusion.
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Postby Velgarn » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:21 pm

solieu wrote:Am I the only one who is afraid of Dual-Specing inside raids or between fights?

In a nutshell, given prior experiences, I am afraid that I will be marginalized into being an eternal offtank merely because I can spec into both healing and tanking, reducing me to a trash- and second- tank behind the warrior instead of remaining main tank.

If I wanted on the fly role switching, I would have rolled a druid.

I don't mind the idea of being able to switch when it's necessary for a reduced cost, or being able to switch on off-days to something for PVP or whatever.. but I'd rather not be healing for every single one-tank fight.

Maybe I'm taking it too far? I really need to have some more Blizzard word on this situation in order to calm me down..

Maybe respec stations before bosses or in "safe zones" (central hub in Naxx, Ashtongue in BT)? Inscription-made scrolls? A big cooldown? A long cast time? Something to deter abuse of the system and my hard work to be a prot paladin.


Why? A raid generally will bring enough healers... I'd tell the prot warrior to go use that dual spec and go Fury/Arms and let ME do the tanking. :lol: ... or say I'll use my dual spec to go ret, but then I get all the pretty 2h weapons when they drop. :twisted: Either way, I WIN. 8)
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Postby sherck » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:38 pm

Pretty darn uber for me as a life-long Holy....

I am heading out to build a better Ret set right now to get ready for this. I will actually be able to complete some quests and mob grinding in a timely fashion on my way to level 80. Woot.

And it will not be like clubbing seals when some Alliance fag jumps me for some PvP action. I might actually be able to get some hits in before I die (I suck at PvP).

Anyway, I think this is great. Much better than I was expecting.

Cheers,
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Postby Grimmal » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:42 pm

Fridmarr wrote:Not at all, you're just one of the only ones who has irrationally jumped to that conclusion.


You've totally lost me here. Maybe it's do to my having had very little sleep today, maybe it's not. But yeah, totally lost me.
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Postby Sabindeus » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:46 pm

Ok Re: The cost discussion

Originally 50G was supposed to be a prohibitive cost for relearning your talents as it was intended to be a permanent choice. As the game evolved, it became clear that re-speccing frequently was something that players enjoyed, and that it was prohibitively hard to make every tree competitive in all aspects of gameplay. The cost, in the BC era, is not a big deal, sure. But that was never the point. The point was that re-speccing frequently is something they originally never intended, and now they are changing their minds and making it a normal part of the game. This means that they will remove the cost of respeccing for this new DUal Spec feature because it is intended for you to change specs.

See?
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