GC gives in, we're on par!!! ^UPDATES^

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Taras » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:13 pm

There won't be any more MT spots than before really. If you assume classes are reasonably balanced, there will be plenty of disenchantment to go around.
Taras
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:38 am

Postby Elsie » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:29 pm

Worldie wrote:Actually the only TBC fight of which i can think where a cooldown such as the new SB would be useful is Brutallus, since Stomp is on "60 sec" cd.

All other fights with burst damage have it either too long (Illidan's Enrage) or unpredictable (Corrosion) or with too short cooldown (Seal of Command from Gathios)

It's useful for tons of things, just not every occurrence.

Gurtogg Bloodboil : makes Fixate survival easier when you weren't the original target.
Najentus: Mitigates post-bubble burst damage till you get topped.
Ros: phase 1 uberness, can probably take more enrages than before == less waste.
Sharaz: eases the transition into 10% enrage.
Lynx Boss: shield block one frenzy, last stand one frenzy, shield block frenzy, shield wall frenzy... shield block frenzy...
M'uru: New add wave every minute -> kill a berserker during shield block. Alternatively, increased initial burst threat on sentinels.

It's not just a defensive tool, it's also a threat tool to double your BV.
User avatar
Elsie
 
Posts: 3819
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:12 pm

Postby Worldie » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:35 pm

Consider that all those fights weren't done with the current SB in mind however.

I'd instead compare it to the current known fights: let's take for example Naxxramas.

I can see it useful in few situations, major one would honestly be after Decimate, i cannot see any other specific useful moment to use it in Naxx at the moment.


p.s. does Shahraz actually do something at the "10% enrage"?
Last edited by Worldie on Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13544
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby elfjorc » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:36 pm

Lynx Boss: shield block one frenzy, last stand one frenzy, shield block frenzy, shield wall frenzy... shield block frenzy...


I'd just like to point out, Lynx hits like a girl with my "leet" 300 Block Value, with ~800 block value and being able to block every attack, you won't even need to bother with Shield Block ever. Not to mention the Frenzies ARE random and they're never what kills you, it's if you fail to get heals between multiple Saber Lashes.

It's a similar thing for Bloodboil. If he Fel Rages a Warrior or a Prot Pally, advantages don't matter cause you will only die if healers fall asleep. Between Bubblewall and Lay on Hands especially. I just don't think cases like that matter enough whose advantage it is.


p.s. does Shahraz actually do something at the "10% enrage"?


IDK, Pocketwatch + Nightmare Seed = if she does something, it kinds gets drowned out.
Image
User avatar
elfjorc
 
Posts: 370
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:20 am
Location: Auckland

Postby Splug » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:16 pm

If you're looking at a way to counter the predictable timer on Vashj's shock, I'd go with grounding totem...

-Splug
Active raid character: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... an&n=Spyte
255 characters is not enough to fit my alts' armories in.
User avatar
Splug
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 2381
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:16 am

Postby snowwight » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:22 pm

Worldie wrote:Consider that all those fights weren't done with the current SB in mind however.

I'd instead compare it to the current known fights: let's take for example Naxxramas.

I can see it useful in few situations, major one would honestly be after Decimate, i cannot see any other specific useful moment to use it in Naxx at the moment.


p.s. does Shahraz actually do something at the "10% enrage"?


Faerlina I think is another good example.
Tankadin since before it was a good idea
snowwight
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:34 pm

Postby PsiVen » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:54 pm

Naxx wasn't even designed with level 70s in mind, let alone Paladin tanks. The mechanics have been updated elegantly but very little has actually changed other than numbers.

We don't really have a basis for 80 raid design comparison at the moment. Sartharion and Malygos are one-shotters that favor DKs if anything.
Gladiator Psiven, Retired Tankadin
WoW-sober since March 2014
Longtime addict of Space - Glory Through Conquest
User avatar
PsiVen
Moderator
 
Posts: 4364
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:28 pm
Location: On a Boat

Postby moduspwnens » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:13 pm

Again, though, these are my opinion of 3.0 mechanics applied to TBC fights. It doesn't really matter who's better for Vashj. Overall, if you compare situations, it shows that if we're balanced around what kind of burst we excel at handling, it's a fairly even comparison. That's the point.
I rule.
moduspwnens
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Shattered Hand

Postby DeadMilliken » Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:28 am

Just since it keeps getting brought up....

Redoubt's proc does not suck at what it has always been designed for.

Redoubt's proc is a large-scale AOE tanking proc. It massively reduces damage in large aoe situatioins. The proc is a crummy effect in single target / few target encounters.

Even in live right now, Redoubt is horrid in 1-5 tanking encounters and insanely good at 10-20+ grinding.

The static bonus of %block value is well worth it from a threat and mitigation standpoint on single target bosses (and is equally awesome in mid-large scale aoe).
Image
User avatar
DeadMilliken
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:19 am

Postby Lore » Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:31 am

PS: Regarding the title... I think saying we're "almost" on par at this point is kind of reaching a bit. If anything, we might be slightly OP due to Blessing of Sanctuary.
User avatar
Lore
Global Mod
 
Posts: 7757
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:52 am

Postby Worldie » Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:39 am

fixd :D
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13544
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby Andox » Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:40 am

Worldie wrote:fixd :D


Gogo ninjaedits!
User avatar
Andox
 
Posts: 1369
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:54 am

Postby lusisia » Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:53 am

Lore wrote:PS: Regarding the title... I think saying we're "almost" on par at this point is kind of reaching a bit. If anything, we might be slightly OP due to Blessing of Sanctuary.


I was thinking the same thing. If we're in a situation where we can get BoSanc AND Kings then we have an additional 3% over the warrior. Of course if the warrior is in the same raid, he has the same opportunity which was the crux of the original confusion, I think.
"then somehow people manage not to see the forty fucking foot tall of fucking fiery flames of fucking doom ... and we wipe." - Isolfr
"It turns out that a large number of people are whiny motherfuckers ..." - PsiVen
User avatar
lusisia
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1627
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:11 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA. US

Postby Embher » Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:08 pm

moduspwnens wrote:
Worldie wrote:The new libram gives 352 BV pre Redoubt.


I thought it was the same as the Shahraz libram?


You know what, I think timing the judgemetns with the BV libram is similar to Shield block. It lasts for 5s, and our judgement is 8 or 10s depending if you judgement talent.

The libram of obstruction is the level 80 one, exactly identical to the one from Mother Shahraz "Tome of the lightbringer". BOth increase block value of 186 on the tooltip.

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=40707

One from Mother Shahraz in BT:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=32368

That's perhaps 10-15% of our BV at level 80.
Yet, Beta players are saying it actually grants 352 block value http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=60795 , according to the comments at
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=40707
.
That is guestimate 20-25% of our total BV (Perhaps 1200 total BV at level 80?).
Assumign you are judging as soon as you should every cd, 50% of the time, the BV buff is up and averages an effective increase of 176 BV.

This style in mitigation from warrior though has its pros and cons. Healers have to deal with less mitigation, spiky dmg when shield blockis not up but deal with a constant mitigation from a paladin with holy shield.

Yes it can be saved for different times ina fight, but they are saving it while they are take more dmg.

The more they save it, the more dmg they take.
Though, saving it for the right is great.

It's a styling of each class tank. On average , the dmg mitigation is the relatively the same between holy shield/redoubt/libram vs critical block/shield block.

Do you guys want to be exactly the same as warrior? To me, the styling is nice.
Last edited by Embher on Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Embher
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:57 am

Postby Andox » Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:14 pm

Thta libram do infact add 352 Block Value if we look on the buff description, I guess they havn't changed the placeholder text yet...

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=60795
User avatar
Andox
 
Posts: 1369
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:54 am

PreviousNext

Return to WotLK

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest